Fwd: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

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Fwd: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Balaji Ramanathan
Hi,

    I keep getting bounce messages from the sqlite mailing list when I try
to post replies from nabble (http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/).  The
message shows up on nabble, but never seems to get to the mailing list and
is not included in the next day's digest of messages sent to the list.  It
looks like Nabble is sending the messages to [hidden email] rather
than [hidden email].  Does somebody need to change
settings in nabble to fix this or do I have to do something different to
get this to work correctly?

My latest bounce message is as below:

This is the mail system at host mbob.nabble.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<[hidden email]>: host mail.sqlite.org[67.18.92.124] said: 554
5.7.1
    <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: Access denied (in
    reply to RCPT TO command)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; [hidden email]
Original-Recipient: rfc822;[hidden email]
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.1
Remote-MTA: dns; mail.sqlite.org
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 5.7.1 <[hidden email]>: Recipient
address
    rejected: Access denied


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Balaji Ramanathan <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 13:18:14 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: I need to merge tables from two databases
Try this:

insert into Customer(id)
select case when b.id = id then b.id||'A' else b.id end from customerb b

Balaji Ramanathan
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Simon Slavin-3

On 26 May 2016, at 10:53pm, Balaji Ramanathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>    I keep getting bounce messages from the sqlite mailing list when I try
> to post replies from nabble

Please post to the list itself, which is not hosted by nabble.  The address to join the mailing list is

<http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users>

If you want nabble to get things right you'll have to contact nabble.

Simon.
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Re: Fwd: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Igor Tandetnik-2
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
On 5/26/2016 5:53 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
>     I keep getting bounce messages from the sqlite mailing list when I try
> to post replies from nabble (http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/).  The
> message shows up on nabble, but never seems to get to the mailing list and
> is not included in the next day's digest of messages sent to the list.  It
> looks like Nabble is sending the messages to [hidden email] rather
> than [hidden email].  Does somebody need to change
> settings in nabble to fix this or do I have to do something different to
> get this to work correctly?

You may want to ask in http://support.nabble.com/ . Someone there should
have the power to update the email address. Explain the situation, point
to http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users 
which shows the new address.

I had the same problem with GMane. Emailed them, and their support fixed
it. Like you, I'm not an admin or anything, just a regular lurker.
--
Igor Tandetnik

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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Balaji Ramanathan
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
Thank you, Simon and Igor.  I have put in a support request at Nabble, let
us see what happens.

Why does SQLite use a mailing list instead of a proper web-hosted
forum/bulletin board type setup?  That way it would be possible to set up
sub-forums for different interests (SQL, Adiministratioin, Bug Reports,
etc., etc.) and readers don't have to wade through all the stuff they are
not interested in just to participate in the stuff they are interested in.
I understand that mailing lists were the norm in the 1990's, but times have
changed.

Balaji Ramanathan

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Balaji Ramanathan <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>     I keep getting bounce messages from the sqlite mailing list when I try
> to post replies from nabble (http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/).  The
> message shows up on nabble, but never seems to get to the mailing list and
> is not included in the next day's digest of messages sent to the list.  It
> looks like Nabble is sending the messages to [hidden email]
> rather than [hidden email].  Does somebody need to
> change settings in nabble to fix this or do I have to do something
> different to get this to work correctly?
>
>
> My latest bounce message is as below:
>
> This is the mail system at host mbob.nabble.com.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> delete your own text from the attached returned message.
>
>                    The mail system
>
> <[hidden email]>: host mail.sqlite.org[67.18.92.124] said: 554
> 5.7.1
>     <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: Access denied
> (in
>     reply to RCPT TO command)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; [hidden email]
> Original-Recipient: rfc822;[hidden email]
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.7.1
> Remote-MTA: dns; mail.sqlite.org
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 5.7.1 <[hidden email]>: Recipient
> address
>     rejected: Access denied
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Balaji Ramanathan <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 13:18:14 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: Re: I need to merge tables from two databases
> Try this:
>
> insert into Customer(id)
> select case when b.id = id then b.id||'A' else b.id end from customerb b
>
> Balaji Ramanathan
>
>
>
>
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Stephen Chrzanowski
Times have changed, because people get 'bright ideas' that just don't work.

I don't want to look at 30 different forums that might claim "The official
forum of SQLite" or whatever.  Also, I don't have to worry about security
different forum services offer.  Everything comes right to my email, and I
don't have to go out to a forum to sign in and then do my post.  If I'm not
interested in an email, I'll just hit the NEXT button.

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Balaji Ramanathan <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you, Simon and Igor.  I have put in a support request at Nabble, let
> us see what happens.
>
> Why does SQLite use a mailing list instead of a proper web-hosted
> forum/bulletin board type setup?  That way it would be possible to set up
> sub-forums for different interests (SQL, Adiministratioin, Bug Reports,
> etc., etc.) and readers don't have to wade through all the stuff they are
> not interested in just to participate in the stuff they are interested in.
> I understand that mailing lists were the norm in the 1990's, but times have
> changed.
>
> Balaji Ramanathan
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Balaji Ramanathan <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >     I keep getting bounce messages from the sqlite mailing list when I
> try
> > to post replies from nabble (http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/).  The
> > message shows up on nabble, but never seems to get to the mailing list
> and
> > is not included in the next day's digest of messages sent to the list.
> It
> > looks like Nabble is sending the messages to [hidden email]
> > rather than [hidden email].  Does somebody need to
> > change settings in nabble to fix this or do I have to do something
> > different to get this to work correctly?
> >
> >
> > My latest bounce message is as below:
> >
> > This is the mail system at host mbob.nabble.com.
> >
> > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
> > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
> >
> > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
> >
> > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> > delete your own text from the attached returned message.
> >
> >                    The mail system
> >
> > <[hidden email]>: host mail.sqlite.org[67.18.92.124] said: 554
> > 5.7.1
> >     <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: Access denied
> > (in
> >     reply to RCPT TO command)
> >
> > Final-Recipient: rfc822; [hidden email]
> > Original-Recipient: rfc822;[hidden email]
> > Action: failed
> > Status: 5.7.1
> > Remote-MTA: dns; mail.sqlite.org
> > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 5.7.1 <[hidden email]>: Recipient
> > address
> >     rejected: Access denied
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Balaji Ramanathan <[hidden email]>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc:
> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 13:18:14 -0700 (MST)
> > Subject: Re: I need to merge tables from two databases
> > Try this:
> >
> > insert into Customer(id)
> > select case when b.id = id then b.id||'A' else b.id end from customerb b
> >
> > Balaji Ramanathan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

R Smith
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan


On 2016/05/27 1:48 AM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:

> Thank you, Simon and Igor.  I have put in a support request at Nabble, let
> us see what happens.
>
> Why does SQLite use a mailing list instead of a proper web-hosted
> forum/bulletin board type setup?  That way it would be possible to set up
> sub-forums for different interests (SQL, Adiministratioin, Bug Reports,
> etc., etc.) and readers don't have to wade through all the stuff they are
> not interested in just to participate in the stuff they are interested in.
> I understand that mailing lists were the norm in the 1990's, but times have
> changed.

We have only really one interest, and that is SQLite - there are no
sub-interests, though some threads have been known to expand into quite
a conversation.

An e-mail based list is by far preferable to most developers. It's only
normal users who prefer facebook style interfaces. Also, we read and
answer (or at least pay attention to) most questions, if it were that we
only saw the questions inside our interest groups, it would defeat the
purpose. I wouldn't even bother to log on. Now I get messages in my
inbox - much more convenient.

That said, I am not sure this is the reason the forum remains as is, it
is just my opinion on the matter, if a rather strongly held opinion. In
fact, I will say that I used to be on a few mailing lists that
"upgraded" to web-interfacy forums. If SQLite goes this route, I will
probably (as with the others) stop reading it too.


Cheers,
Ryan
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Balaji Ramanathan
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
Interesting.  I have no idea what a facebook-style interface looks like
since I don't have a facebook account.  The main advantage of forums, and I
follow a bunch of them, is that I choose when I want to stop my regular day
job and be distracted by them rather than emails coming in and distracting
me all the time.  And a forum can be set up to email you every time someone
posts something if you want to follow along in real-time.  But if the main
contributors prefer a mailing list then I can get used to it too.

Balaji Ramanathan
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Jean-Christophe Deschamps-3
In reply to this post by R Smith

At 03:46 27/05/2016, you wrote:
>If SQLite goes this route, I will probably (as with the others) stop
>reading it too.

Seconded.

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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Paul Sanderson
I'm a developer and I much prefer the forum approach. I don't get to
read all of the threads on here because I do have a specific interest
in a subset of the SQLite subject.

I like the ability to subscribe to a thread and get updates when someone replies

I like to be able to embed graphics (I understand why some would not
allow this but most forums I am in are closed/strictly monitored)

I like the ability to split a thread when it has gone off topic.

I like formatting my posts :)

Forums were after all partly designed to address the short comings of
email lists (although email clients have also moved on)

There are forums that also support an email interface so I am sure if
there is a will there is a a way

I can live with things how they are though.


Paul
www.sandersonforensics.com
skype: r3scue193
twitter: @sandersonforens
Tel +44 (0)1326 572786
http://sandersonforensics.com/forum/content.php?195-SQLite-Forensic-Toolkit
-Forensic Toolkit for SQLite
email from a work address for a fully functional demo licence


On 27 May 2016 at 06:23, Jean-Christophe Deschamps <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> At 03:46 27/05/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> If SQLite goes this route, I will probably (as with the others) stop
>> reading it too.
>
>
> Seconded.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Darren Duncan
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
On 2016-05-26 9:00 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
> The main advantage of forums, and I
> follow a bunch of them, is that I choose when I want to stop my regular day
> job and be distracted by them rather than emails coming in and distracting
> me all the time.

That's not an argument for web forums, rather that's an argument for not using
your work email to subscribe to non-work discussion lists; use a non-work email
for the discussion lists instead.  You can also configure your email client to
only check email when you tell it to rather than constantly. -- Darren Duncan

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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Tim Streater-3
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
On 27 May 2016 at 08:56, Darren Duncan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2016-05-26 9:00 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
>> The main advantage of forums, and I follow a bunch of them, is that I choose
>> when I want to stop my regular day job and be distracted by them rather than
>> emails coming in and distracting me all the time.
>
> That's not an argument for web forums, rather that's an argument for not using
> your work email to subscribe to non-work discussion lists; use a non-work email
> for the discussion lists instead.  You can also configure your email client to
> only check email when you tell it to rather than constantly. -- Darren Duncan

Filter the sqlite mails into their own mailbox. They can then be read at a convenient moment.

I certainly don't want a whole lot of sub-forums and the like, each of which has to be checked in case there's something interesting there.

--
Cheers  --  Tim

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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Rob Willett
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
I agree with Tim.

I filter all my SQLite messages to its own folder and read as needed.

I prefer this method to a forum as I can then keep the messages with me.
I’m often off the internet and its good to have them for reading. Also
I can look back through them and get hints and tips about issues.

Its not perfect but it works for me. I get around the distraction of
emails coming in through client filtering, I did start filtering at the
server so that only important stuff came through immediately but that
didn’t work well.  I now use Mailmate and like the power and lack of
graphical eye candy it offers.

I’d actively vote against a SQLite forum rather than e-mail (if
anybody asked me, which I doubt…) SQLite is important to our work so
having it around is fine by me,

YMMV

Rob


On 27 May 2016, at 10:34, Tim Streater wrote:

> On 27 May 2016 at 08:56, Darren Duncan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-05-26 9:00 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
>>> The main advantage of forums, and I follow a bunch of them, is that
>>> I choose
>>> when I want to stop my regular day job and be distracted by them
>>> rather than
>>> emails coming in and distracting me all the time.
>>
>> That's not an argument for web forums, rather that's an argument for
>> not using
>> your work email to subscribe to non-work discussion lists; use a
>> non-work email
>> for the discussion lists instead.  You can also configure your email
>> client to
>> only check email when you tell it to rather than constantly. --
>> Darren Duncan
>
> Filter the sqlite mails into their own mailbox. They can then be read
> at a convenient moment.
>
> I certainly don't want a whole lot of sub-forums and the like, each of
> which has to be checked in case there's something interesting there.
>
> --
> Cheers  --  Tim
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Jonathan Moules-3
I think there are two different use cases for a mailing list such as this, and they're each better served by different access method; either email or forums.

One use case is the individual with a long-term interest in a project/technology. Because of the long-term interest, an email list (which is a "push" technology - it comes to you) is ideal - you sign up once, set up mail filtering, and then read at your leisure in the client of your choice.

The other use case is people with a one-off question. "Why isn't this query working?", "What's the SQLite function for XYZ?" etc. For me at least, whenever I have had one of these in the past for a particular technology, signing up to a mailing list is a chore. You sign up, wait for the confirmation email, get spammed by tons of stuff you're not interested in (you don't plan on being subscribed long enough to spend the time setting up filters), then have to unsubscribe when you've got the answer, and then confirm the unsubscription.
Then two months later you have another query and have to do the entire process again. Personally I loathe going through this process for one-off questions.

In this second use-case, a forum (being "pull" based - you get it when you want it) is better. Sign-up, correspond, then forget about it. If there's another question a few months later, you can login again using the old credentials and continue where you left off.

Unfortunately I don't think there's much forum/list software out there that facilitates *both* use-cases. Google Groups tries to, but I've not encountered anything else (not that I've gone looking).
I've seen some lists try and punt this "forum" component off to domain specific stackexchange sub-sites, but that has it's own problem (splitting the community between venues).
Just my 2p,
Cheers,
Jonathan




---- On Fri, 27 May 2016 10:55:30 +0100 Rob Willett &lt;[hidden email]&gt; wrote ----

I agree with Tim.

I filter all my SQLite messages to its own folder and read as needed.

I prefer this method to a forum as I can then keep the messages with me.
I’m often off the internet and its good to have them for reading. Also
I can look back through them and get hints and tips about issues.

Its not perfect but it works for me. I get around the distraction of
emails coming in through client filtering, I did start filtering at the
server so that only important stuff came through immediately but that
didn’t work well. I now use Mailmate and like the power and lack of
graphical eye candy it offers.

I’d actively vote against a SQLite forum rather than e-mail (if
anybody asked me, which I doubt…) SQLite is important to our work so
having it around is fine by me,

YMMV

Rob


On 27 May 2016, at 10:34, Tim Streater wrote:

&gt; On 27 May 2016 at 08:56, Darren Duncan &lt;[hidden email]&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 2016-05-26 9:00 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; The main advantage of forums, and I follow a bunch of them, is that
&gt;&gt;&gt; I choose
&gt;&gt;&gt; when I want to stop my regular day job and be distracted by them
&gt;&gt;&gt; rather than
&gt;&gt;&gt; emails coming in and distracting me all the time.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That's not an argument for web forums, rather that's an argument for
&gt;&gt; not using
&gt;&gt; your work email to subscribe to non-work discussion lists; use a
&gt;&gt; non-work email
&gt;&gt; for the discussion lists instead. You can also configure your email
&gt;&gt; client to
&gt;&gt; only check email when you tell it to rather than constantly. --
&gt;&gt; Darren Duncan
&gt;
&gt; Filter the sqlite mails into their own mailbox. They can then be read
&gt; at a convenient moment.
&gt;
&gt; I certainly don't want a whole lot of sub-forums and the like, each of
&gt; which has to be checked in case there's something interesting there.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Cheers -- Tim
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; sqlite-users mailing list
&gt; [hidden email]
&gt; http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
_______________________________________________
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Paul Sanderson
Theres another reason - consistency.

Just look back thorugh this thread and see how things are quoted,
often differently depending on the mail client used - much easier to
read when a quote is nicely formatted in a highlighted box.

Then (just from this thread)  there is formatting of dates - all
different and with differing timezones, depending on the users
settings. Trivial but forum software takes care of all of this for
you.

Tends to be die hard linux users who like mail lists (and text only
email) and the rest of us have moved on :)
Paul
www.sandersonforensics.com
skype: r3scue193
twitter: @sandersonforens
Tel +44 (0)1326 572786
http://sandersonforensics.com/forum/content.php?195-SQLite-Forensic-Toolkit
-Forensic Toolkit for SQLite
email from a work address for a fully functional demo licence


On 27 May 2016 at 11:43, Jonathan Moules <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think there are two different use cases for a mailing list such as this, and they're each better served by different access method; either email or forums.
>
> One use case is the individual with a long-term interest in a project/technology. Because of the long-term interest, an email list (which is a "push" technology - it comes to you) is ideal - you sign up once, set up mail filtering, and then read at your leisure in the client of your choice.
>
> The other use case is people with a one-off question. "Why isn't this query working?", "What's the SQLite function for XYZ?" etc. For me at least, whenever I have had one of these in the past for a particular technology, signing up to a mailing list is a chore. You sign up, wait for the confirmation email, get spammed by tons of stuff you're not interested in (you don't plan on being subscribed long enough to spend the time setting up filters), then have to unsubscribe when you've got the answer, and then confirm the unsubscription.
> Then two months later you have another query and have to do the entire process again. Personally I loathe going through this process for one-off questions.
>
> In this second use-case, a forum (being "pull" based - you get it when you want it) is better. Sign-up, correspond, then forget about it. If there's another question a few months later, you can login again using the old credentials and continue where you left off.
>
> Unfortunately I don't think there's much forum/list software out there that facilitates *both* use-cases. Google Groups tries to, but I've not encountered anything else (not that I've gone looking).
> I've seen some lists try and punt this "forum" component off to domain specific stackexchange sub-sites, but that has it's own problem (splitting the community between venues).
> Just my 2p,
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> ---- On Fri, 27 May 2016 10:55:30 +0100 Rob Willett &lt;[hidden email]&gt; wrote ----
>
> I agree with Tim.
>
> I filter all my SQLite messages to its own folder and read as needed.
>
> I prefer this method to a forum as I can then keep the messages with me.
> I’m often off the internet and its good to have them for reading. Also
> I can look back through them and get hints and tips about issues.
>
> Its not perfect but it works for me. I get around the distraction of
> emails coming in through client filtering, I did start filtering at the
> server so that only important stuff came through immediately but that
> didn’t work well. I now use Mailmate and like the power and lack of
> graphical eye candy it offers.
>
> I’d actively vote against a SQLite forum rather than e-mail (if
> anybody asked me, which I doubt…) SQLite is important to our work so
> having it around is fine by me,
>
> YMMV
>
> Rob
>
>
> On 27 May 2016, at 10:34, Tim Streater wrote:
>
> &gt; On 27 May 2016 at 08:56, Darren Duncan &lt;[hidden email]&gt;
> &gt; wrote:
> &gt;
> &gt;&gt; On 2016-05-26 9:00 PM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
> &gt;&gt;&gt; The main advantage of forums, and I follow a bunch of them, is that
> &gt;&gt;&gt; I choose
> &gt;&gt;&gt; when I want to stop my regular day job and be distracted by them
> &gt;&gt;&gt; rather than
> &gt;&gt;&gt; emails coming in and distracting me all the time.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; That's not an argument for web forums, rather that's an argument for
> &gt;&gt; not using
> &gt;&gt; your work email to subscribe to non-work discussion lists; use a
> &gt;&gt; non-work email
> &gt;&gt; for the discussion lists instead. You can also configure your email
> &gt;&gt; client to
> &gt;&gt; only check email when you tell it to rather than constantly. --
> &gt;&gt; Darren Duncan
> &gt;
> &gt; Filter the sqlite mails into their own mailbox. They can then be read
> &gt; at a convenient moment.
> &gt;
> &gt; I certainly don't want a whole lot of sub-forums and the like, each of
> &gt; which has to be checked in case there's something interesting there.
> &gt;
> &gt; --
> &gt; Cheers -- Tim
> &gt; _______________________________________________
> &gt; sqlite-users mailing list
> &gt; [hidden email]
> &gt; http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Stephen Chrzanowski
I'm a big time die hard fan of "text only".  I'm an information consumer,
and not someone who likes being distracted by meaningless visual effects.

My Linux consoles are all (mostly) white on black, my 5-monitor Windows
desktop looks like Windows 2000, and my 3-monitor work machine follows that
suit.  Both machines are setup with a solid candy apple red background and
not that dark or light blue.  No pictures, no fancy graphics.  Performance
gains alone for just that (My machine isn't a slouch, and is still in the
top 10% for 3DMark benchmarks even at 3 years old).  I tell Windows to not
animate windows on min/max/restore.  I tell Windows to not animate the drop
down boxes, or scroll boxes.  If I were to run a Linux desktop (And I have
in the past) I turned those fancy eye candy functions off as well.

Any forum I do go to (Which is only a few, and rarely viewed) I actively go
in and remove the icons, tag lines, footers, change the UI to something
basic, and easy to read.  I don't care to see what peoples icons are, I
don't care what they're taglines say, I don't care about anything other
than who posted, and what they had to say.

I find it hilarious that we're moving on to 4k displays on the desktop and
TVs, yet, icons keep getting bigger and bigger, requiring more horsepower
from GPUs and CPUs to render, and more desktop real estate used to
accommodate those larger icons.  Even icons on my freak'n phone are getting
bigger, to no advantage.

I'm a die hard fan of simplicity, nothing over complex, easy to digest, and
love reducing the "eye candy" that has absolutely no relation to what I'm
interested in.

When we're in an age where monitors on our desktops are now typically wide
screen, when a websites design FORCES a portrait view of their content
annoys me to no end.  ESPECIALLY when their advertisements take away from
the content I want to read because that ad wants to take over the 800 pixel
wide column of text, while the other 1120 pixels go to digital waste.

Forum software is often very misused.  They're used as trackers, they're
used for notifying of versions of new software, they're used for bug
reports.  They're used quite often for stuff that ISN'T a conversation.
Maintenance of that software also becomes an issue, in that updates have to
happen, someone has to manage the software as moderators, clean up crap
posts, get rid of spammers, so on and so on.

They're a common attack vector for spammers, hackers, and all that.  I
don't have to worry about someone finding an exploit to the latest flavor
of BLOG forum software, and then getting access to a database that contains
information that I'm forced to enter that I didn't want to enter at
registration.


On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Paul Sanderson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Theres another reason - consistency.
>
> Just look back thorugh this thread and see how things are quoted,
> often differently depending on the mail client used - much easier to
> read when a quote is nicely formatted in a highlighted box.
>
> Then (just from this thread)  there is formatting of dates - all
> different and with differing timezones, depending on the users
> settings. Trivial but forum software takes care of all of this for
> you.
>
> Tends to be die hard linux users who like mail lists (and text only
> email) and the rest of us have moved on :)
> Paul
> www.sandersonforensics.com
> skype: r3scue193
> twitter: @sandersonforens
> Tel +44 (0)1326 572786
> http://sandersonforensics.com/forum/content.php?195-SQLite-Forensic-Toolkit
> -Forensic
> <http://sandersonforensics.com/forum/content.php?195-SQLite-Forensic-Toolkit-Forensic>
> Toolkit for SQLite
> email from a work address for a fully functional demo licence
>
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

R Smith
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan


On 2016/05/27 6:00 AM, Balaji Ramanathan wrote:
> Interesting.  I have no idea what a facebook-style interface looks like
> since I don't have a facebook account.  The main advantage of forums, and I
> follow a bunch of them, is that I choose when I want to stop my regular day
> job and be distracted by them rather than emails coming in and distracting
> me all the time.  And a forum can be set up to email you every time someone
> posts something if you want to follow along in real-time.  But if the main
> contributors prefer a mailing list then I can get used to it too.

A valid point indeed - for most of us this is simply achieved by e-mail
filtering or perhaps using a different mail account.
As an aside - If your company makes software that uses SQLite in any
way, you should probably receive the SQLite forum mails somewhere into a
folder in your company mails as reference material.

This forum is one of the pillars of SQLite's usability.

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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Scott Robison-2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Moules-3
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 4:43 AM, Jonathan Moules <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think there are two different use cases for a mailing list such as this,
> and they're each better served by different access method; either email or
> forums.
>
> One use case is the individual with a long-term interest in a
> project/technology. Because of the long-term interest, an email list (which
> is a "push" technology - it comes to you) is ideal - you sign up once, set
> up mail filtering, and then read at your leisure in the client of your
> choice.
>
> The other use case is people with a one-off question. "Why isn't this
> query working?", "What's the SQLite function for XYZ?" etc. For me at
> least, whenever I have had one of these in the past for a particular
> technology, signing up to a mailing list is a chore. You sign up, wait for
> the confirmation email, get spammed by tons of stuff you're not interested
> in (you don't plan on being subscribed long enough to spend the time
> setting up filters), then have to unsubscribe when you've got the answer,
> and then confirm the unsubscription.
> Then two months later you have another query and have to do the entire
> process again. Personally I loathe going through this process for one-off
> questions.
>
> In this second use-case, a forum (being "pull" based - you get it when you
> want it) is better. Sign-up, correspond, then forget about it. If there's
> another question a few months later, you can login again using the old
> credentials and continue where you left off.
>

The problem is that the forum is better for the group of people asking one
off questions. The people who would answer that question are the people who
would have to treat it as "another mail source" of sorts.

I'd like to see some sort of hybridized approach myself (for my own
projects, not advocating for SQLite), where those who want email only can
use email only, but there is still an official web based official history /
forum-like entity, but that's more so that I could easily integrate it into
my fossil repo, keeping all the history surrounding the project in one
place. Maybe it's just a pipe dream.

SDR
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Simon Slavin-3

On 27 May 2016, at 7:50pm, Scott Robison <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to see some sort of hybridized approach myself (for my own
> projects, not advocating for SQLite), where those who want email only can
> use email only, but there is still an official web based official history /
> forum-like entity

Not picking on you personally, Scott.  Just contributing to the thread.

You can find an archive of all posts to this list on the site linked to by the last line of every post to this list.  It's as official as it gets.

If you want to read this list as if it's a web forum, use nabble.

If you want an independent web forum -- not an echo of this list -- where people can ask and answer questions about SQLite, feel free to set one up.  Or use a 'sqlite' filter when reading Stack Overflow.

If you want the SQLite development team to read a web forum like they read this mailing list, and respond to posts they think can benefit from their help, pay them.

I used to read web fora for a previous job and can't count the hours I spent wading through unreadable fonts, indecipherable grammar, unfathomable source code, and huge signature blocks with flashing squirming jumping crawling colour-changing collections of bad art and worse quotes.  I did it because I was paid to, and stopped when they let me.

This mailing list is plaintext-only and attachment-free for a reason.  And I like it that way.  Occasionally I screw up and post my own signature block here, for which I beg everyone's forgiveness.

Simon.
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Scott Robison-2
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 27 May 2016, at 7:50pm, Scott Robison <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to see some sort of hybridized approach myself (for my own
> > projects, not advocating for SQLite), where those who want email only can
> > use email only, but there is still an official web based official
> history /
> > forum-like entity
>
> Not picking on you personally, Scott.  Just contributing to the thread.
>
> You can find an archive of all posts to this list on the site linked to by
> the last line of every post to this list.  It's as official as it gets.
>

{snip}

No problem. I understand and agree with this 99.999%. As I stated, it's
more for my own projects that I'd like something like this. Not as much a
forum, per se, but maintaining the history of the mailing list in a
searchable form as part of my own repository. Not trying to push SQLite in
that direction. What's useful for one is not useful for all.

In no way am I advocating a PHPBB style forum for my own projects or for
SQLite or fossil.

--
Scott Robison
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Re: Messages posted on Nabble not getting to list

Balaji Ramanathan
In reply to this post by Balaji Ramanathan
Ryan Smith wrore:
>A valid point indeed - for most of us this is simply achieved by e-mail
f>iltering or perhaps using a different mail account.
>As an aside - If your company makes software that uses SQLite in any
>way, you should probably receive the SQLite forum mails somewhere into a
>folder in your company mails as reference material.
>
>This forum is one of the pillars of SQLite's usability.

Well, truth be told, this mailing list gets so little traffic precisely
because it is a mailing list.  Most forums I am a member of have 1000's of
messages a day compared to the few dozen this mailing list gets in a
typical day.  I have seen more SQLite questions answered on a single day in
forums like stack overflow than are answered in this mailing list in a
month or more.  But then again, if this mailing list actually had a few
hundred or thousand posts to it daily, I wouldn't tolerate the flood of
emails into my inbox.  As it stands, it works fine precisely because it is
so low-volume.  And of course, the quality of contributors is probably much
higher because only the hard-core, dedicated users of SQLite sign up and
contribute on this mailing list.  But when I was debating between MySQL and
SQLite for my project, I almost didn't choose SQLite because of the archaic
look and feel of the sqlite.org website and support options available
there.  Flash for the sake of flash is not good, but sometimes you have to
show people that you and your product are keeping up with the times, not
already obsolete before you even download it and start using it.

Balaji Ramanathan
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