Installing SQLite

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Installing SQLite

scabral
Hi,

does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to install SQLite on Windows XP?  

I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but not sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)

the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.  When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???

thanks
Scott
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Re: Installing SQLite

Nuno Magalhães-2
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:

[...]

> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.
> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???

[...]

Oh... a troll.
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Re: Installing SQLite

Puneet Kishor-2
In reply to this post by scabral
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
> install SQLite on Windows XP?
>
> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but not
> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)
>
> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.

Well, declaring the sqlite website to be crappy is not going to win
you many friends here. Remember, it is all free, so if you think it
lacks in some way, offer some constructive criticism instead. Of
course, in reality, the sqlite website actually is quite the opposite
of crappy. I just downloaded the "zip file" (there are several of
them), and I got exactly what was stated on the tin -- the sqlite3.exe
executable.

You have to decide what you want -- the executable is a command line
program. There is also a dll and other such paraphernalia that Windows
folks require... I am sure they will help you out, but please don't
put them off by calling the site crappy.


> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
>
> thanks
> Scott
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614036.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>



--
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
=======================================================================
Sent from Madison, WI, United States
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Re: Installing SQLite

scabral
When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:

sqlite3   C File
sqlite3   H File
sqlite3ext H File

what am i supposed to do with those?

Is there no 'true' install?

Scott
P Kishor-3 wrote
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, scabral<scabral7@lifespan.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
> install SQLite on Windows XP?
>
> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but not
> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)
>
> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.

Well, declaring the sqlite website to be crappy is not going to win
you many friends here. Remember, it is all free, so if you think it
lacks in some way, offer some constructive criticism instead. Of
course, in reality, the sqlite website actually is quite the opposite
of crappy. I just downloaded the "zip file" (there are several of
them), and I got exactly what was stated on the tin -- the sqlite3.exe
executable.

You have to decide what you want -- the executable is a command line
program. There is also a dll and other such paraphernalia that Windows
folks require... I am sure they will help you out, but please don't
put them off by calling the site crappy.


> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
>
> thanks
> Scott
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614036.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> sqlite-users@sqlite.org
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>



--
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
=======================================================================
Sent from Madison, WI, United States
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Re: Installing SQLite

scabral
In reply to this post by Nuno Magalhães-2
i don't get it...


Nuno Magalhães-2 wrote
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30, scabral<scabral7@lifespan.org> wrote:

[...]

> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.
> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???

[...]

Oh... a troll.
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Re: Installing SQLite

Puneet Kishor-2
In reply to this post by scabral
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:42 PM, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:
>
> sqlite3   C File
> sqlite3   H File
> sqlite3ext H File
>
> what am i supposed to do with those?
>
> Is there no 'true' install?

Read that entire page carefully before clicking on the first available
link.. you will find what you need. This kind of trigger-happy
clicking will get your computer infected with some nasty virus.


>
> Scott
>
> P Kishor-3 wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
>>> install SQLite on Windows XP?
>>>
>>> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but
>>> not
>>> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)
>>>
>>> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the
>>> least.
>>
>> Well, declaring the sqlite website to be crappy is not going to win
>> you many friends here. Remember, it is all free, so if you think it
>> lacks in some way, offer some constructive criticism instead. Of
>> course, in reality, the sqlite website actually is quite the opposite
>> of crappy. I just downloaded the "zip file" (there are several of
>> them), and I got exactly what was stated on the tin -- the sqlite3.exe
>> executable.
>>
>> You have to decide what you want -- the executable is a command line
>> program. There is also a dll and other such paraphernalia that Windows
>> folks require... I am sure they will help you out, but please don't
>> put them off by calling the site crappy.
>>
>>
>>> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Scott
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614036.html
>>> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sqlite-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
>> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
>> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
>> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
>> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
>> =======================================================================
>> Sent from Madison, WI, United States
>> _______________________________________________
>> sqlite-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614205.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>



--
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
=======================================================================
Sent from Madison, WI, United States
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Re: Installing SQLite

jreidthompson
In reply to this post by scabral
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:30:58PM -0700, scabral wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
> install SQLite on Windows XP?
>
> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but not
> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)
>
> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.
> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
>

you did something wrong.  This file

http://sqlite.org/sqlite-3_6_16.zip

from  http://sqlite.org/download.html
contains the precompiled windows binary
and this page, referenced from where the above link is
http://sqlite.org/sqlite.html
tells you how to get started

utilizing sqlite from a language requires this file
http://sqlite.org/sqlitedll-3_6_16.zip
and you have to install the appropriate bindings for your lang of choice
or configure your compilation to utilize the dll
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Re: Installing SQLite

Thomas Briggs-2
In reply to this post by scabral
   Not in the InstallShield/MSI format that I imagine you're looking
for no.  But that's the whole point, really.

   See the "Precompiled Binaries" section of the download page.
You'll find what you need (if not necessarily what you're looking for)
there.

   -T

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:
>
> sqlite3   C File
> sqlite3   H File
> sqlite3ext H File
>
> what am i supposed to do with those?
>
> Is there no 'true' install?
>
> Scott
>
> P Kishor-3 wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
>>> install SQLite on Windows XP?
>>>
>>> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but
>>> not
>>> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)
>>>
>>> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the
>>> least.
>>
>> Well, declaring the sqlite website to be crappy is not going to win
>> you many friends here. Remember, it is all free, so if you think it
>> lacks in some way, offer some constructive criticism instead. Of
>> course, in reality, the sqlite website actually is quite the opposite
>> of crappy. I just downloaded the "zip file" (there are several of
>> them), and I got exactly what was stated on the tin -- the sqlite3.exe
>> executable.
>>
>> You have to decide what you want -- the executable is a command line
>> program. There is also a dll and other such paraphernalia that Windows
>> folks require... I am sure they will help you out, but please don't
>> put them off by calling the site crappy.
>>
>>
>>> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Scott
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614036.html
>>> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sqlite-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org
>> Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org
>> Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org
>> Science Commons Fellow, http://sciencecommons.org/about/whoweare/kishor
>> Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Assertions are politics; backing up assertions with evidence is science
>> =======================================================================
>> Sent from Madison, WI, United States
>> _______________________________________________
>> sqlite-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614205.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>
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Re: Installing SQLite

Rich Shepard
In reply to this post by scabral
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, scabral wrote:

> does someone have 'good' instructions on what i need and how i need to
> install SQLite on Windows XP?

Scott,

   I don't do Windows; haven't for more than a dozen years. However, it
doesn't look too hard.

> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the least.
> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???

   Well, those of us on non-Microsoft systems are used to installing new
applications either from distribution-specific packages or by building and
installing from the source code. There are probably generic installation
instructions for XP, too.

   If you go to the download section of the Web site you'll see this:

Precompiled Binaries For Windows
  sqlite-3_6_16.zip
  (246.32 KiB) A command-line program for accessing and
  modifying SQLite databases. See the
  documentation for additional information.

  tclsqlite-3_6_16.zip
  (314.99 KiB) Bindings for Tcl/Tk. You can import this
  shared library into either tclsh or wish to
  get SQLite database access from Tcl/Tk. See
  the documentation for details.

  sqlitedll-3_6_16.zip
  (243.68 KiB) This is a DLL of the SQLite library without
  the TCL bindings. The only external
  dependency is MSVCRT.DLL.

  sqlite3_analyzer-3.6.1.zip
  (508.70 KiB) An analysis program for database files
  compatible with SQLite version 3.6.1 and
  later.

   So I presume that you downloaded both sqlite-3_6_16.zip and
sqlitedll-3_6_16.zip. Yes?

   Aren't there generic instructions for installing *.exe and *.dll files?

> I eventually want to create a desktop application to run on SQLite, but not
> sure what language i want to use yet (pythong, ruby, etc...)

   For stand-alone applications I suggest Python (without the 'g'); for
Web-based (or http server-based) applications I suggest Ruby on Rails.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863
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Re: Installing SQLite

Rich Shepard
In reply to this post by scabral
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, scabral wrote:

> When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:
>
> sqlite3   C File
> sqlite3   H File
> sqlite3ext H File

> what am i supposed to do with those?

   Well, based on what others wrote about your initial comments, I suggest
that you replace XP with a linux distribution. Then you can compile that
source code all by yourself. On the other hand, if you insist on sticking
with Microsoft, download one of the pre-built Winduhs .zip files as I
indicated in my previous message.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863
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Re: Installing SQLite

Jim Dodgen
In reply to this post by scabral
This is not a simple tool. I is primarily designed to be embedded in
applications. Your opinion about the quality of the *install* instructions
leads people to believe that you may need a better understanding of the
skill level required to use Sqlite.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:43 PM, scabral <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> i don't get it...
>
>
>
> Nuno Magalhães-2 wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30, scabral<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> the instructions on the SQLite website are pretty crappy to say the
> >> least.
> >> When i download the zip file, all i get is 3 txt files???
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Oh... a troll.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sqlite-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Installing-SQLite-tp24614036p24614214.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>



--
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Re: Installing SQLite

Wilson, Ron P
In reply to this post by Rich Shepard
> Well, based on what others wrote about your initial comments, I suggest
> that you replace XP with a linux distribution. Then you can compile that
> source code all by yourself. On the other hand, if you insist on sticking
> with Microsoft, download one of the pre-built Winduhs .zip files as I
> indicated in my previous message.

SQlite compiles just fine on windows XP.  You just need tools to do it, which unlike linux, don't automatically come with the OS.  So there is most likely a teaching opportunity here, though admittedly the OP does not appear to be in a teachable frame of mind.

I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.  SQlite is not a windows application you install like MS Word or Firefox.  It is a code library that you embed into other code.  It is possible to use it in a 'stand alone' manner by using the command line utility, but I'm 99% sure this will not meet the OP's expectations either.

Also, I for one would appreciate it if in the future you avoid making the sweeping generalization that "Winduhs" users are dummies or lemmings.  I'm sure others would agree.

RW

Ron Wilson, Engineering Project Lead
(o) 434.455.6453, (m) 434.851.1612, www.harris.com

HARRIS CORPORATION   |   RF Communications Division assuredcommunicationsT
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Re: Installing SQLite

John Machin
In reply to this post by Rich Shepard
On 23/07/2009 6:48 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, scabral wrote:
>
>> When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:
>>
>> sqlite3   C File
>> sqlite3   H File
>> sqlite3ext H File
>
>> what am i supposed to do with those?
>
>  Well, based on what others wrote about your initial comments, I suggest
> that you replace XP with a linux distribution. Then you can compile that
> source code all by yourself.

No need. One can compile sqlite on Windows all by ones's own self using
a variety of $-free C/C++ compilers (gcc/mingw32 (FOSS), Borland, and
there's a command-line compiler somewhere inside the 100Mb VS2009
Express download from the dark tower of Redmond).

> On the other hand, if you insist on sticking
> with Microsoft, download one of the pre-built Winduhs .zip files as I
> indicated in my previous message.

The pre-built Windows .zip files are paralleled one-to-one by pre-built
linux .gz files ... someone must consider that inability to compile
one's way out of a wet paper bag is platform-independent :-)
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Re: Installing SQLite

Fred Williams
I think you guys are most likely feeding a Troll, or the original poster
might ought to contact his IS support department, or enroll in some
introductory basic home computer continuing education courses in his local
area.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of John Machin
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:02 AM
To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Installing SQLite


On 23/07/2009 6:48 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, scabral wrote:
>
>> When i download the sqlite-amalgamation-3_6_16.zip i get 3 text files:
>>
>> sqlite3   C File
>> sqlite3   H File
>> sqlite3ext H File
>
>> what am i supposed to do with those?
>
>  Well, based on what others wrote about your initial comments, I suggest
> that you replace XP with a linux distribution. Then you can compile that
> source code all by yourself.

No need. One can compile sqlite on Windows all by ones's own self using
a variety of $-free C/C++ compilers (gcc/mingw32 (FOSS), Borland, and
there's a command-line compiler somewhere inside the 100Mb VS2009
Express download from the dark tower of Redmond).

> On the other hand, if you insist on sticking
> with Microsoft, download one of the pre-built Winduhs .zip files as I
> indicated in my previous message.

The pre-built Windows .zip files are paralleled one-to-one by pre-built
linux .gz files ... someone must consider that inability to compile
one's way out of a wet paper bag is platform-independent :-)
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Re: Installing SQLite

Jay Kreibich
In reply to this post by Wilson, Ron P
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched on the wall:

> I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.

  Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
  download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
  state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've been
  writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
  want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitly a lot of hoops
  you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
  similar design.
 
  A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
  project, complete with "configure" script, to having the amalgimation
  be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
  transition is imcomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
  were before.

  The amalgimation works well enough if what you want is mostly
  defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
  #defines for numric defaults, most of the more interesting build
  options won't work with the amalgimation.  Only that's it.  As the
  website clearly states, there is no other supported option.  
  no suppored "by the file"


> SQlite is not a
> windows application you install like MS Word or Firefox.  It is a
> code library that you embed into other code.  It is possible to
> use it in a 'stand alone' manner by using the command line
> utility, but I'm 99% sure this will not meet the OP's expectations
> either.



--
Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y  @  K R E I B I.C H >

"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs.  We have
 a protractor."   "I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler
 and a piece of string."  --from Anathem by Neal Stephenson
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Re: Installing SQLite

Jay Kreibich

  Grrr.... I didn't meant to send this just yet.  But since I did, I
  guess I need to finish it.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:50:37AM -0500, Jay A. Kreibich scratched on the wall:

> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched on the wall:
>
> > I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.
>
>   Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
>   download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
>   state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've been
>   writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
>   want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitely a lot of hoops
>   you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
>   similar design.
>  
>   A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
>   project, complete with "configure" script, to having the amalgamation
>   be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
>   transition is incomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
>   were before.
>
>   The amalgamation works well enough if what you want is mostly
>   defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
>   #defines for numeric defaults, most of the more interesting build
>   options won't work with the amalgamation.  Only that's it.  As the
>   website clearly states, there is no other supported option.  

  The "by the file" distribution is bad enough, but you're totally out
  of luck if you need to go to the tree for some of the really complex
  build options.  Of course, the "by the file" distribution is there
  and available for download because a lot of people still need it, but
  apparently not enough to justify keeping it updated.  That's a bit of
  a contradiction... for a piece of software that prides itself on its
  testing systems, the end-users sees a whole lot of "there but not
  supported; it might work it might not; you're on your own" stuff.
  That's normally a big red flag in my book.  Stuff should be there, be
  supported, and be documented, or it shouldn't.  The current situation
  is only easily understandable if you've been following SQLite for a few
  years.

  And the OP is right... the build docs suck.  There are no build docs
  for most downloads, just a archive file with source.  No Makefiles, no
  nothing.  There is no "how to build" on the documentation page (just
  docs on build options) and the Wiki pages on building and the
  amalgamation are so out of date that they have negative value, doing
  little more than confusing people.

  I realize that you might take the argument that anyone smart enough
  need to build the SQLite engine into an application should be able to
  figure that out, and with enough time, maybe that's right a fair
  percentage of the time.  On the other hand, the whole point of moving
  to the amalgamation was to simplify putting SQLite into an
  application.  I think overall it does this, but only if you're
  working from the default everything.  The amalgamation might be
  easier or better (for some definition of those terms) if you
  understand it, but it is radically different from nearly every other
  open source project out there.  A bit of hand holding, even for
  experienced developers, is not out of place.

  SQLite is a great product, but there is still a lot of room for
  improvement on the packaging, distribution, and "productization"
  of the code.


  And even if his post was a bit negative, I'm a little disappointed at
  the community response.  We're here to help, not criticize.  If that
  was my introduction to the product and its users, you can be sure I
  wouldn't be coming back.  If you're not going to try to add something
  to the conversation, there is no obligation to hit reply.

   -j


--
Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y  @  K R E I B I.C H >

"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs.  We have
 a protractor."   "I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler
 and a piece of string."  --from Anathem by Neal Stephenson
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Re: Installing SQLite

Jim Showalter-4
Jay, your email below is superb. It's dispassionate, accurate,
diplomatic, and informative.

I was also disappointed to see this email list go the way of so many
others over the past day or so, but it's easy enough to fix it. Stop
calling someone else a doofus for selecting a particular OS to work
with, stop using the word "sucks" to describe a deficiency in the
build system and instead offer constructive criticism and suggestions
for improvement (as Jay does below), and stop calling people trolls
even if their email is a bit of a flame.

In the short time I've subscribed to this list, I've been amazed at
the technical acumen of the people who reply to questions. The replies
I've gotten for my questions--even stupid ones--have been very
helpful, and some of the in-depth discussions of particular features
(like iterating over chunks of blobs) are fascinating.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay A. Kreibich" <[hidden email]>
To: "Jay A. Kreibich" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "General Discussion of SQLite Database" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Installing SQLite


>
>  Grrr.... I didn't meant to send this just yet.  But since I did, I
>  guess I need to finish it.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:50:37AM -0500, Jay A. Kreibich scratched
> on the wall:
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched
>> on the wall:
>>
>> > I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.
>>
>>   Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
>>   download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
>>   state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've
>> been
>>   writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
>>   want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitely a lot of
>> hoops
>>   you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
>>   similar design.
>>
>>   A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
>>   project, complete with "configure" script, to having the
>> amalgamation
>>   be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
>>   transition is incomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
>>   were before.
>>
>>   The amalgamation works well enough if what you want is mostly
>>   defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
>>   #defines for numeric defaults, most of the more interesting build
>>   options won't work with the amalgamation.  Only that's it.  As
>> the
>>   website clearly states, there is no other supported option.
>
>  The "by the file" distribution is bad enough, but you're totally
> out
>  of luck if you need to go to the tree for some of the really
> complex
>  build options.  Of course, the "by the file" distribution is there
>  and available for download because a lot of people still need it,
> but
>  apparently not enough to justify keeping it updated.  That's a bit
> of
>  a contradiction... for a piece of software that prides itself on
> its
>  testing systems, the end-users sees a whole lot of "there but not
>  supported; it might work it might not; you're on your own" stuff.
>  That's normally a big red flag in my book.  Stuff should be there,
> be
>  supported, and be documented, or it shouldn't.  The current
> situation
>  is only easily understandable if you've been following SQLite for a
> few
>  years.
>
>  And the OP is right... the build docs suck.  There are no build
> docs
>  for most downloads, just a archive file with source.  No Makefiles,
> no
>  nothing.  There is no "how to build" on the documentation page
> (just
>  docs on build options) and the Wiki pages on building and the
>  amalgamation are so out of date that they have negative value,
> doing
>  little more than confusing people.
>
>  I realize that you might take the argument that anyone smart enough
>  need to build the SQLite engine into an application should be able
> to
>  figure that out, and with enough time, maybe that's right a fair
>  percentage of the time.  On the other hand, the whole point of
> moving
>  to the amalgamation was to simplify putting SQLite into an
>  application.  I think overall it does this, but only if you're
>  working from the default everything.  The amalgamation might be
>  easier or better (for some definition of those terms) if you
>  understand it, but it is radically different from nearly every
> other
>  open source project out there.  A bit of hand holding, even for
>  experienced developers, is not out of place.
>
>  SQLite is a great product, but there is still a lot of room for
>  improvement on the packaging, distribution, and "productization"
>  of the code.
>
>
>  And even if his post was a bit negative, I'm a little disappointed
> at
>  the community response.  We're here to help, not criticize.  If
> that
>  was my introduction to the product and its users, you can be sure I
>  wouldn't be coming back.  If you're not going to try to add
> something
>  to the conversation, there is no obligation to hit reply.
>
>   -j
>
>
> --
> Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y  @  K R E I B I.C H >
>
> "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs.  We
> have
> a protractor."   "I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler
> and a piece of string."  --from Anathem by Neal Stephenson
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users 

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Re: Installing SQLite

veneff
In reply to this post by Jay Kreibich
If there was a zip file that included an open source compiler and linker
and a well commented makefile along with SQLite's source code so that
anyone (at least under Windows) can generate the version SQLite dll and
command shell that they want without having to search for tools, I think
more people would be more likely to experiment with some of the non
standard features.

Vance

Jay A. Kreibich wrote:

>   Grrr.... I didn't meant to send this just yet.  But since I did, I
>   guess I need to finish it.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:50:37AM -0500, Jay A. Kreibich scratched on the wall:
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched on the wall:
>>
>>> I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.
>>   Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
>>   download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
>>   state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've been
>>   writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
>>   want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitely a lot of hoops
>>   you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
>>   similar design.
>>  
>>   A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
>>   project, complete with "configure" script, to having the amalgamation
>>   be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
>>   transition is incomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
>>   were before.
>>
>>   The amalgamation works well enough if what you want is mostly
>>   defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
>>   #defines for numeric defaults, most of the more interesting build
>>   options won't work with the amalgamation.  Only that's it.  As the
>>   website clearly states, there is no other supported option.  
>
>   The "by the file" distribution is bad enough, but you're totally out
>   of luck if you need to go to the tree for some of the really complex
>   build options.  Of course, the "by the file" distribution is there
>   and available for download because a lot of people still need it, but
>   apparently not enough to justify keeping it updated.  That's a bit of
>   a contradiction... for a piece of software that prides itself on its
>   testing systems, the end-users sees a whole lot of "there but not
>   supported; it might work it might not; you're on your own" stuff.
>   That's normally a big red flag in my book.  Stuff should be there, be
>   supported, and be documented, or it shouldn't.  The current situation
>   is only easily understandable if you've been following SQLite for a few
>   years.
>
>   And the OP is right... the build docs suck.  There are no build docs
>   for most downloads, just a archive file with source.  No Makefiles, no
>   nothing.  There is no "how to build" on the documentation page (just
>   docs on build options) and the Wiki pages on building and the
>   amalgamation are so out of date that they have negative value, doing
>   little more than confusing people.
>
>   I realize that you might take the argument that anyone smart enough
>   need to build the SQLite engine into an application should be able to
>   figure that out, and with enough time, maybe that's right a fair
>   percentage of the time.  On the other hand, the whole point of moving
>   to the amalgamation was to simplify putting SQLite into an
>   application.  I think overall it does this, but only if you're
>   working from the default everything.  The amalgamation might be
>   easier or better (for some definition of those terms) if you
>   understand it, but it is radically different from nearly every other
>   open source project out there.  A bit of hand holding, even for
>   experienced developers, is not out of place.
>
>   SQLite is a great product, but there is still a lot of room for
>   improvement on the packaging, distribution, and "productization"
>   of the code.
>
>
>   And even if his post was a bit negative, I'm a little disappointed at
>   the community response.  We're here to help, not criticize.  If that
>   was my introduction to the product and its users, you can be sure I
>   wouldn't be coming back.  If you're not going to try to add something
>   to the conversation, there is no obligation to hit reply.
>
>    -j
>
>

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Re: Installing SQLite

Dan Kennedy-4
In reply to this post by Jay Kreibich

On Jul 23, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Jay A. Kreibich wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched on  
> the wall:
>
>> I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.
>
>  Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
>  download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
>  state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've been
>  writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
>  want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitly a lot of hoops
>  you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
>  similar design.
>
>  A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
>  project, complete with "configure" script, to having the amalgimation
>  be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
>  transition is imcomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
>  were before.
>
>  The amalgimation works well enough if what you want is mostly
>  defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
>  #defines for numric defaults, most of the more interesting build
>  options won't work with the amalgimation.  Only that's it.  As the
>  website clearly states, there is no other supported option.
>  no suppored "by the file"

I think it's just the SQLITE_ENABLE_UPDATE_DELETE_LIMIT feature and
some of the SQLITE_OMIT_XXX symbols that won't work with the  
amalgamation
version. I haven't tried though, so could be wrong there.

There is an amalgamation package that includes a supported configure
script. "./configure && make install" and you're away. You can specify
compile time options via the CFLAGS environment variable.

The problem with the configure script in the full source tree
distribution is that it is complex and nobody really seems to understand
it. Hence "unsupported".
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Re: Installing SQLite

Fred Williams
In reply to this post by veneff
That might be an option to consider.  But, I think there might be a rather
small number of potential SQLite users interested.  I would think the group
with the greatest benefit of that kind of package would be students and
serious rookies.

Most users I feel either pre possess the required expertise to work with the
current source package or, like me, prefer to leave the implementation
details to those supplying the pre packaged .DLL's.  I could work from
source, but why bother?  I guess I'm getting lazy or am too willing to
accept what is prepackaged.

My main purpose is to utilize a small tightly implemented database that I do
not have to deal with below the prepackaged level.  If that was not possible
with SQLite, I would still be looking I suppose.  I would suspect that the
majority of users are pretty much in my camp.  I'll go so far as to say
20/80, the golden rule of most everything in life.  With 20 being the Gurus
or wana'bes and 80 the rest of us.

BTW, I'll go further and say that fewer than 20 of the above 80 even know
about this mailing list ;-)

Dr. Hipp may be able to back this up with some general numbers if he wishes
to totally waste his time...

Fred

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Vance E. Neff
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:06 PM
To: [hidden email]; General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Installing SQLite


If there was a zip file that included an open source compiler and linker
and a well commented makefile along with SQLite's source code so that
anyone (at least under Windows) can generate the version SQLite dll and
command shell that they want without having to search for tools, I think
more people would be more likely to experiment with some of the non
standard features.

Vance

Jay A. Kreibich wrote:
>   Grrr.... I didn't meant to send this just yet.  But since I did, I
>   guess I need to finish it.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:50:37AM -0500, Jay A. Kreibich scratched on the
wall:
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched on the
wall:

>>
>>> I think the OP just has the wrong expectations.
>>   Yes, and no.  While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install
>>   download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution
>>   state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal."  I've been
>>   writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you
>>   want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitely a lot of hoops
>>   you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of
>>   similar design.
>>
>>   A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style
>>   project, complete with "configure" script, to having the amalgamation
>>   be the "standard" distribution.  I've always felt like that
>>   transition is incomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we
>>   were before.
>>
>>   The amalgamation works well enough if what you want is mostly
>>   defaults.  The issue is that, while you can change a few of the
>>   #defines for numeric defaults, most of the more interesting build
>>   options won't work with the amalgamation.  Only that's it.  As the
>>   website clearly states, there is no other supported option.
>
>   The "by the file" distribution is bad enough, but you're totally out
>   of luck if you need to go to the tree for some of the really complex
>   build options.  Of course, the "by the file" distribution is there
>   and available for download because a lot of people still need it, but
>   apparently not enough to justify keeping it updated.  That's a bit of
>   a contradiction... for a piece of software that prides itself on its
>   testing systems, the end-users sees a whole lot of "there but not
>   supported; it might work it might not; you're on your own" stuff.
>   That's normally a big red flag in my book.  Stuff should be there, be
>   supported, and be documented, or it shouldn't.  The current situation
>   is only easily understandable if you've been following SQLite for a few
>   years.
>
>   And the OP is right... the build docs suck.  There are no build docs
>   for most downloads, just a archive file with source.  No Makefiles, no
>   nothing.  There is no "how to build" on the documentation page (just
>   docs on build options) and the Wiki pages on building and the
>   amalgamation are so out of date that they have negative value, doing
>   little more than confusing people.
>
>   I realize that you might take the argument that anyone smart enough
>   need to build the SQLite engine into an application should be able to
>   figure that out, and with enough time, maybe that's right a fair
>   percentage of the time.  On the other hand, the whole point of moving
>   to the amalgamation was to simplify putting SQLite into an
>   application.  I think overall it does this, but only if you're
>   working from the default everything.  The amalgamation might be
>   easier or better (for some definition of those terms) if you
>   understand it, but it is radically different from nearly every other
>   open source project out there.  A bit of hand holding, even for
>   experienced developers, is not out of place.
>
>   SQLite is a great product, but there is still a lot of room for
>   improvement on the packaging, distribution, and "productization"
>   of the code.
>
>
>   And even if his post was a bit negative, I'm a little disappointed at
>   the community response.  We're here to help, not criticize.  If that
>   was my introduction to the product and its users, you can be sure I
>   wouldn't be coming back.  If you're not going to try to add something
>   to the conversation, there is no obligation to hit reply.
>
>    -j
>
>

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http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users

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