Please Restore Your Account Access

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
32 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Please Restore Your Account Access

service@paypal.com-9
dilettantes remain rude.Where we can almost borrow money from our earring.Hugo, the friend of Hugo and earns frequent flier miles with power drill near.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

D. Richard Hipp
"[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> dilettantes remain rude.Where we can almost borrow money from our
> earring.Hugo, the friend of Hugo and earns frequent flier miles
> with power drill near.

In order to be able to send messages to this mailing list,
the spammer above had to subscribe.  To subscribe means that
he had to respond to an email that was sent to the subscription
address.  Since his email address does not exist, I'm wondering
how he managed to pull this off.  Any ideas?

I have unsubscribed every account from "paypal.com" and "ebay.com".
All such accounts were of the form "[hidden email]" or
"[hidden email]", etc.  There were 7 such accounts.

After purging the accounts above, we are still left with 1217
active subscribers.  This seems like a lot to me.  I'm wondering
if some fraction of these might be inactive accounts, or accounts
belonging to people who have spam filters turned on to delete
incoming email from sqlite.org.  Does anybody have any ideas on
how we might remove people from the mailing list that do not
actually read messages from the mailing list?  When email bounces,
the user is removed automatically.  But email addresses that silently
absorb messages and never deliver them to a real human can linger
on the mailing list indefinitely.  

I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
other mailing lists that require such measures?

--
D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Eugene Wee
Hi,

I think many of the 1217 active subscribers are people like me who tune in to
the list but only contribute once in a blue moon.

I do not have any objection to a "send email to keep your subscription active"
idea, but I have never seen that used in the other mailing lists that I
subscribe to.

Regards,
Eugene Wee

[hidden email] wrote:

> "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> dilettantes remain rude.Where we can almost borrow money from our
>> earring.Hugo, the friend of Hugo and earns frequent flier miles
>> with power drill near.
>
> In order to be able to send messages to this mailing list,
> the spammer above had to subscribe.  To subscribe means that
> he had to respond to an email that was sent to the subscription
> address.  Since his email address does not exist, I'm wondering
> how he managed to pull this off.  Any ideas?
>
> I have unsubscribed every account from "paypal.com" and "ebay.com".
> All such accounts were of the form "[hidden email]" or
> "[hidden email]", etc.  There were 7 such accounts.
>
> After purging the accounts above, we are still left with 1217
> active subscribers.  This seems like a lot to me.  I'm wondering
> if some fraction of these might be inactive accounts, or accounts
> belonging to people who have spam filters turned on to delete
> incoming email from sqlite.org.  Does anybody have any ideas on
> how we might remove people from the mailing list that do not
> actually read messages from the mailing list?  When email bounces,
> the user is removed automatically.  But email addresses that silently
> absorb messages and never deliver them to a real human can linger
> on the mailing list indefinitely.  
>
> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
> you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
> subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
> other mailing lists that require such measures?
>
> --
> D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

René Tegel
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
Hi,

Seen the popularity of sqlite, i think 1200 subscribers is very
reasonable. Lots of people track mailing lists, only contributing rarely
but nevertheless are interested.

You could consider a system that requires moderation by the list
administrator for each first message a newly subscribed user posts. This
is a small inconvenience for new members (may take some hours or a day
before his/hers message appears on the list) but is effective against
list spam. Several mailing list systems include such feature, and it
appears a reasonable trade-off.

regards,

Rene

[hidden email] schreef:

> "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> dilettantes remain rude.Where we can almost borrow money from our
>> earring.Hugo, the friend of Hugo and earns frequent flier miles
>> with power drill near.
>>    
>
> In order to be able to send messages to this mailing list,
> the spammer above had to subscribe.  To subscribe means that
> he had to respond to an email that was sent to the subscription
> address.  Since his email address does not exist, I'm wondering
> how he managed to pull this off.  Any ideas?
>
> I have unsubscribed every account from "paypal.com" and "ebay.com".
> All such accounts were of the form "[hidden email]" or
> "[hidden email]", etc.  There were 7 such accounts.
>
> After purging the accounts above, we are still left with 1217
> active subscribers.  This seems like a lot to me.  I'm wondering
> if some fraction of these might be inactive accounts, or accounts
> belonging to people who have spam filters turned on to delete
> incoming email from sqlite.org.  Does anybody have any ideas on
> how we might remove people from the mailing list that do not
> actually read messages from the mailing list?  When email bounces,
> the user is removed automatically.  But email addresses that silently
> absorb messages and never deliver them to a real human can linger
> on the mailing list indefinitely.  
>
> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
> you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
> subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
> other mailing lists that require such measures?
>
> --
> D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>
>
>
>  

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles.

Aristotle Pagaltzis
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
* [hidden email] <[hidden email]> [2006-05-29 12:50]:
> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that
> requires you to either send a message to the mailing list or
> else renew your subscription every 3 months. Does anybody have
> any experience with other mailing lists that require such
> measures?

I've never seen that anywhere else, probably because none of the
popular mailing list managers include such a feature.

Mailman tries to deal with the problem by sending membership
reminder mails on every first of the month, but that's hardly
ideal. I am subscribed to lists managed on so many different
hosts that I used to get flooded at the start of every month
(two-dozen-odd reminders), so eventually I wrote a recipe to
trash these reminders before I even see them.

Your scheme is not airtight either: writing a filter recipe to
autorespond to renewal mails is a pretty easy task. But not many
people are likely to actually do that. You'd want to check
whether it's actually unsubscribing anyone after several months
of running it, though, to make sure you aren't just bugging
lurkers for no benefit.

Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Clay Dowling
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
[hidden email] wrote:

> In order to be able to send messages to this mailing list,
> the spammer above had to subscribe.  To subscribe means that
> he had to respond to an email that was sent to the subscription
> address.  Since his email address does not exist, I'm wondering
> how he managed to pull this off.  Any ideas?
>
> I have unsubscribed every account from "paypal.com" and "ebay.com".
> All such accounts were of the form "[hidden email]" or
> "[hidden email]", etc.  There were 7 such accounts.

I would start by putting a filter in front of the list that won't accept
anything with @paypal.com or @ebay.com, not just at signup time but when
the messages are received.

As to how he pulled it off, there's probably an auto-responder on those
addresses.

Clay Dowling
--
http://www.lazarusid.com/notes/
Lazarus Notes
Articles and Commentary on Web Development
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Fred Williams
In reply to this post by René Tegel
How about some form of automated(?) sequence where:

        New subscriber submits subscription request.

        System sends "query" message to subscriber address.

        New subscriber sends "confirmation" message within reasonable time
period.

        List access granted on receipt of confirmation.

At least the damn spammer would have to do a little work to be a bottom
feeder.  Too bad there must be an endless number of idiots out there (P
T Barnum postulation) or the problem would self regulate.

Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: René Tegel [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 7:13 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please
> Restore Your Account Access
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Seen the popularity of sqlite, i think 1200 subscribers is very
> reasonable. Lots of people track mailing lists, only
> contributing rarely
> but nevertheless are interested.
>
> You could consider a system that requires moderation by the list
> administrator for each first message a newly subscribed user
> posts. This
> is a small inconvenience for new members (may take some hours
> or a day
> before his/hers message appears on the list) but is effective against
> list spam. Several mailing list systems include such feature, and it
> appears a reasonable trade-off.
>
> regards,
...

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

D. Richard Hipp
"Fred Williams" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How about some form of automated(?) sequence where:
>
> New subscriber submits subscription request.
>
> System sends "query" message to subscriber address.
>
> New subscriber sends "confirmation" message within reasonable time
> period.
>
> List access granted on receipt of confirmation.
>
> At least the damn spammer would have to do a little work to be a bottom
> feeder.  Too bad there must be an endless number of idiots out there (P
> T Barnum postulation) or the problem would self regulate.
>

Such a system is already in place.  Please recall when you
signed up that you got a confirmation message that you had
to reply to before you were added to the mailing list.

And yet somehow, the spammer still managed to get signed up
using a "paypal.com" address.  How did they do that?
--
D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Fred Williams
In reply to this post by Fred Williams
Here's an example:
-----------
Hi Fred Willisams,

Please click on the following link to activate your account. Then start
Worksite CD and click 'Yes' to get current prices at your local Home
Depot:

Please Click Here!

Thank you for using The Home Depot Worksite CD. If you need help with
Worksite CD or have a question about getting daily price updates, please
call 760-438-3254 between 8 AM and 5 PM (Pacific) Monday through Friday.
We'll be glad to help.

The Worksite CD Team
[hidden email]

The link above points to:
xxxx://vf110.probookcd.com/Validate.aspx?Email=[hidden email]&Ke
y=bf3y9e9txka

----------------------


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Williams [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [sqlite] Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please
> Restore Your Account Access
>
>
> How about some form of automated(?) sequence where:
>
> New subscriber submits subscription request.
>
> System sends "query" message to subscriber address.
>
> New subscriber sends "confirmation" message within
> reasonable time
> period.
>
> List access granted on receipt of confirmation.
>
> At least the damn spammer would have to do a little work to
> be a bottom
> feeder.  Too bad there must be an endless number of idiots
> out there (P
> T Barnum postulation) or the problem would self regulate.
>
> Fred
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: René Tegel [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 7:13 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [sqlite] Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please
> > Restore Your Account Access
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Seen the popularity of sqlite, i think 1200 subscribers is very
> > reasonable. Lots of people track mailing lists, only
> > contributing rarely
> > but nevertheless are interested.
> >
> > You could consider a system that requires moderation by the list
> > administrator for each first message a newly subscribed user
> > posts. This
> > is a small inconvenience for new members (may take some hours
> > or a day
> > before his/hers message appears on the list) but is
> effective against
> > list spam. Several mailing list systems include such feature, and it
> > appears a reasonable trade-off.
> >
> > regards,
> ...
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Jalil Vaidya
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
--- [hidden email] wrote:

> And yet somehow, the spammer still managed to get
> signed up
> using a "paypal.com" address.  How did they do that?

Its probably very easy to screen scrape the message to
harvest every link in the confirmation message and do
a wget on it! I must admit that I do not remember what
the confirmation message looks like when signing up
for sqlite but most of such mails have a link to click
on or just need to reply to the mail. Both of the ways
are very easy automate.

I am wondering if paypal supports Domain Keys (or some
other such mechanism) like yahoo does that ensures
that the mail actually came from that domain. If they
do then it would help to implement such checks for
"blacklisted" (sic) domains such as paypal or ebay.

Like other members mentioned before, I respond once in
a blue moon too but don't mind having to confirm my
membership every month or three. It is just going to
be a little bit of hassle...

Regards,

Jalil Vaidya

01001010
01100001
01101100
01101001
01101100
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Clay Dowling
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
[hidden email] wrote:

> "Fred Williams" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> How about some form of automated(?) sequence where:
>>
>> New subscriber submits subscription request.
>>
>> System sends "query" message to subscriber address.
>>
>> New subscriber sends "confirmation" message within reasonable time
>> period.
>>
>> List access granted on receipt of confirmation.
>>
>> At least the damn spammer would have to do a little work to be a bottom
>> feeder.  Too bad there must be an endless number of idiots out there (P
>> T Barnum postulation) or the problem would self regulate.
>>
>
> Such a system is already in place.  Please recall when you
> signed up that you got a confirmation message that you had
> to reply to before you were added to the mailing list.
>
> And yet somehow, the spammer still managed to get signed up
> using a "paypal.com" address.  How did they do that?

[hidden email] at least does have an auto-responder.  The message
contains the text of any message sent to it, appended to the bottom of
the email.  That would serve to automatically validate the check email.

You might want to consider reworking the check mechanism, using the
capture mechanism that a lot of web forums and blogs use.  Users must
type in text presented on a web page in the form of a graphic.  That
will put a stop to the automated signup pretty quickly.

Clay
--
CeaMuS, Simple Content Management
http://www.ceamus.com
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

mhoenicka
Clay Dowling <[hidden email]> was heard to say:

> You might want to consider reworking the check mechanism, using the
> capture mechanism that a lot of web forums and blogs use.  Users must
> type in text presented on a web page in the form of a graphic.  That
> will put a stop to the automated signup pretty quickly.
>

...and it will exclude the visually impaired just as quickly.

regards,
Markus

--
Markus Hoenicka
[hidden email]
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Robert Simpson
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 7:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Purging the mailing list roles. Was:
> Please Restore Your Account Access
>
> Such a system is already in place.  Please recall when you
> signed up that you got a confirmation message that you had
> to reply to before you were added to the mailing list.
>
> And yet somehow, the spammer still managed to get signed up
> using a "paypal.com" address.  How did they do that?

If the validation utility validates on the From header (faked addr) and
replies honoring the "ReplyTo" header (real addr), then that'd be one way to
skim through.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Alex Roston
In reply to this post by René Tegel
This is an excellent idea.

Alex


René Tegel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Seen the popularity of sqlite, i think 1200 subscribers is very
> reasonable. Lots of people track mailing lists, only contributing
> rarely but nevertheless are interested.
>
> You could consider a system that requires moderation by the list
> administrator for each first message a newly subscribed user posts.
> This is a small inconvenience for new members (may take some hours or
> a day before his/hers message appears on the list) but is effective
> against list spam. Several mailing list systems include such feature,
> and it appears a reasonable trade-off.
>
> regards,
>
> Rene
>
> [hidden email] schreef:
>
>> "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> dilettantes remain rude.Where we can almost borrow money from our
>>> earring.Hugo, the friend of Hugo and earns frequent flier miles with
>>> power drill near.
>>>    
>>
>>
>> In order to be able to send messages to this mailing list,
>> the spammer above had to subscribe.  To subscribe means that
>> he had to respond to an email that was sent to the subscription
>> address.  Since his email address does not exist, I'm wondering
>> how he managed to pull this off.  Any ideas?
>>
>> I have unsubscribed every account from "paypal.com" and "ebay.com".
>> All such accounts were of the form "[hidden email]" or
>> "[hidden email]", etc.  There were 7 such accounts.
>>
>> After purging the accounts above, we are still left with 1217
>> active subscribers.  This seems like a lot to me.  I'm wondering
>> if some fraction of these might be inactive accounts, or accounts
>> belonging to people who have spam filters turned on to delete
>> incoming email from sqlite.org.  Does anybody have any ideas on
>> how we might remove people from the mailing list that do not
>> actually read messages from the mailing list?  When email bounces,
>> the user is removed automatically.  But email addresses that silently
>> absorb messages and never deliver them to a real human can linger
>> on the mailing list indefinitely.
>> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
>> you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
>> subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
>> other mailing lists that require such measures?
>>
>> --
>> D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>>  
>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

webscool
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
1200 is a modest number for a mailing list . Expect it to go up to 3-4000 as
SQLite gets more popular. One reason for the lists popularity is the
friendliness of the list members and their willingness to respond to basic
SQL queries. At some stage the list could be split into two. One for wrapper
users (tcl perl) and one for those using the C API.

Regards, Paul Nash

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

John Stanton-3
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
[hidden email] wrote:

> "Fred Williams" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>How about some form of automated(?) sequence where:
>>
>> New subscriber submits subscription request.
>>
>> System sends "query" message to subscriber address.
>>
>> New subscriber sends "confirmation" message within reasonable time
>>period.
>>
>> List access granted on receipt of confirmation.
>>
>>At least the damn spammer would have to do a little work to be a bottom
>>feeder.  Too bad there must be an endless number of idiots out there (P
>>T Barnum postulation) or the problem would self regulate.
>>
>
>
> Such a system is already in place.  Please recall when you
> signed up that you got a confirmation message that you had
> to reply to before you were added to the mailing list.
>
> And yet somehow, the spammer still managed to get signed up
> using a "paypal.com" address.  How did they do that?
> --
> D. Richard Hipp   <[hidden email]>
>
Is it possible to spoof the reply message?  Even if it is lost the
villain sends what you expect the response would be, including the
spoofed header.

It could be a classic "Man in the Middle" attack where the culprits are
actually intercepting mail by some corrupt practice.  Spammers have
become very cunning and a lot of money is involved.

Could you implement the type of challenge that is becoming common where
you send an image with distorted text and require a visual decoding of
the text in the reply for validation?  That would eliminate valid
machine-generated responses.  Does pose a text-only problem, solved with
a WWW link.

One other idea might be to have a regular challenge email requiring a
reply to maintain the account.  A rule such as "fail three consecutive
challenges and you are deleted" would be necessary to avoid eventually
deleting all users.  A gentler variation might be to not remove the user
but to make that user read-only by removing posting rights, preserving
the rights of casual readers but denying access to spam.
JS
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Jay Sprenkle
In reply to this post by D. Richard Hipp
On 5/29/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
> you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
> subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
> other mailing lists that require such measures?

It sounds like Clay figured it out.
The autoresponder would verify the signup email.
I'm going to have to rework my own stuff to avoid this too.

On list management, how about this:

* The mailing list periodically selects out all accounts that have not
posted and disables those accounts.
* Sends an email to those accounts telling them they're
disabled due to inactivity and they can reenable by clicking on a link.

It drops people who don't read it or that delete mail unread.
It's minimally intrusive to lurkers.
There's no overhead for posters.
It doesn't sound hard to implement.


--
SqliteImporter, SqliteReplicator: Command line utilities for Sqlite
http://www.reddawn.net/~jsprenkl/Sqlite
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Brandon, Nicholas (UK)

>
> I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
> you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
> subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
> other mailing lists that require such measures?
>

As most people, they are either email replies or a link to a website.

Obviously it depends on your desired goal. If it is keeping automated
scripts away then I would suggest a link to a website to confirm signup.
On that website ask the user to enter a random set of digits displayed
on the page. (That will keep the scripts that open links in confirmation
emails away).

If the goal is a general cleansing, then your suggestion to regularly
"opt-in" sounds fine.

Nick





********************************************************************
This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.
********************************************************************
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Eugene Wee
In reply to this post by Jay Sprenkle
Hi,

Basically, what I imagined from DRH's original proposal was that accounts that
have not sent out mails after some period of time would receive an email
informing them that they will be unsubscribed unless they send a mail to the
mailing list, or they reply to this notification email, within some (short)
period of time.

I have qualms about asking people to click on a link, since it may look like a
bogus email in which the link will take them elsewhere. You know, like one of
those "your account has expired, click on this link to renew" spam emails.

A request to participate or reply to the notification is consistent with the
subscription process, so people are more likely to treat it is genuine. Of
course, on the other hand, having a validation link means that a CAPTCHA can be
used in the validation webpage, as was previously suggested. It would also be
possible to have a CAPTCHA in an email, but chances are email readers may strike
out the image, or even flag the message as suspicious.

Regards,
Eugene Wee

Jay Sprenkle wrote:

> On list management, how about this:
>
> * The mailing list periodically selects out all accounts that have not
> posted and disables those accounts.
> * Sends an email to those accounts telling them they're
> disabled due to inactivity and they can reenable by clicking on a link.
>
> It drops people who don't read it or that delete mail unread.
> It's minimally intrusive to lurkers.
> There's no overhead for posters.
> It doesn't sound hard to implement.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please Restore Your Account Access

Fred Williams
In reply to this post by Jay Sprenkle
BUT, the spammers ARE posting...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Sprenkle [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:46 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Purging the mailing list roles. Was: Please
> Restore Your Account Access
>
>
> On 5/29/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if I need to implement some kind of mechanism that requires
> > you to either send a message to the mailing list or else renew your
> > subscription every 3 months.  Does anybody have any experience with
> > other mailing lists that require such measures?
>
> It sounds like Clay figured it out.
> The autoresponder would verify the signup email.
> I'm going to have to rework my own stuff to avoid this too.
>
> On list management, how about this:
>
> * The mailing list periodically selects out all accounts that have not
> posted and disables those accounts.
> * Sends an email to those accounts telling them they're
> disabled due to inactivity and they can reenable by clicking
> on a link.
>
> It drops people who don't read it or that delete mail unread.
> It's minimally intrusive to lurkers.
> There's no overhead for posters.
> It doesn't sound hard to implement.
>
>
> --
> SqliteImporter, SqliteReplicator: Command line utilities for Sqlite
> http://www.reddawn.net/~jsprenkl/Sqlite

12