Running on windows 98

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Running on windows 98

Jose F. Gimenez
Hi all,

I've recently noticed that sqlite doesn't work on windows 98 since
version 3.7.12, due to the change to use OVERLAPPED when read and write
files. I've made a small modification to take care of it, and avoid to
use that way on win 98 (by using the function isNT() to check that
condition). I've attached a patch in this message.

I've tested it and it seems to work fine (tested on win98, xp and win7),
but I'd like to know if it's correct or if there is any problem which I
can't see.

TIA,

Jose F. Gimenez

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Re: Running on windows 98

Jose F. Gimenez
Hi,

any comment about this subject?

TIA,
Jose F. Gimenez


El 09/01/2013 20:36, Jose F. Gimenez escribió:

> Hi all,
>
> I've recently noticed that sqlite doesn't work on windows 98 since
> version 3.7.12, due to the change to use OVERLAPPED when read and
> write files. I've made a small modification to take care of it, and
> avoid to use that way on win 98 (by using the function isNT() to check
> that condition). I've attached a patch in this message.
>
> I've tested it and it seems to work fine (tested on win98, xp and
> win7), but I'd like to know if it's correct or if there is any problem
> which I can't see.
>
> TIA,
>
> Jose F. Gimenez
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users

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Re: Running on windows 98

Richard Hipp-3
In reply to this post by Jose F. Gimenez
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Jose F. Gimenez <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've recently noticed that sqlite doesn't work on windows 98 since version
> 3.7.12, due to the change to use OVERLAPPED when read and write files. I've
> made a small modification to take care of it, and avoid to use that way on
> win 98 (by using the function isNT() to check that condition). I've
> attached a patch in this message.
>
> I've tested it and it seems to work fine (tested on win98, xp and win7),
> but I'd like to know if it's correct or if there is any problem which I
> can't see.
>

We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to
support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to
work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest
you use those older versions of SQLite.


>
> TIA,
>
> Jose F. Gimenez
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>
>


--
D. Richard Hipp
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Re: Running on windows 98

Marc L. Allen
Might I suggest you include his patch so it at least runs?  That way, if he's willing to test each new version, he doesn't need to modify the official source to do it.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Richard Hipp
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:20 PM
To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Running on windows 98

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Jose F. Gimenez <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've recently noticed that sqlite doesn't work on windows 98 since
> version 3.7.12, due to the change to use OVERLAPPED when read and
> write files. I've made a small modification to take care of it, and
> avoid to use that way on win 98 (by using the function isNT() to check
> that condition). I've attached a patch in this message.
>
> I've tested it and it seems to work fine (tested on win98, xp and
> win7), but I'd like to know if it's correct or if there is any problem
> which I can't see.
>

We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest you use those older versions of SQLite.


>
> TIA,
>
> Jose F. Gimenez
>
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
>
>


--
D. Richard Hipp
[hidden email]
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Re: Running on windows 98

Jose F. Gimenez
In reply to this post by Richard Hipp-3
Richard,

thanks for replying.

> We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to
> support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to
> work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest
> you use those older versions of SQLite.

Versions up to 3.7.11 are working fine on windows 98. Was version
3.7.12, where an optimization in read and write operations (overlapped
mode) was introduced which broke compatibility with older windows versions.

What I attached in my first post, was a minor change to avoid using that
optimization for older windows, while keeping it for newer ones, so
sqlite works fine in all windows versions. I've used isNT() function to
check if that optimization is done or not. Please, review it; it doesn't
break anything. I'm using it on Windows 98, XP, Vista and 7, and is
working fine everywhere.

Thanks,

Jose F. Gimenez
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Re: Running on windows 98

Richard Hipp-3
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Jose F. Gimenez <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Richard,
>
> thanks for replying.
>
>
>  We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to
>> support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to
>> work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest
>> you use those older versions of SQLite.
>>
>
> Versions up to 3.7.11 are working fine on windows 98. Was version 3.7.12,
> where an optimization in read and write operations (overlapped mode) was
> introduced which broke compatibility with older windows versions.
>
> What I attached in my first post, was a minor change to avoid using that
> optimization for older windows, while keeping it for newer ones, so sqlite
> works fine in all windows versions. I've used isNT() function to check if
> that optimization is done or not. Please, review it; it doesn't break
> anything. I'm using it on Windows 98, XP, Vista and 7, and is working fine
> everywhere.
>

SQLite supports so many different platforms and so many different
compile-time options that it makes my head spin trying to test them all.
Each new platform or compile-time option is only a modest increase in
complexity itself.  And every time we start supporting a new platform or
option, it makes SQLite useful to a slightly larger audience.  But over
time, this support for a myriad of platforms and options adds up to some
serious complexity.  And complexity is the enemy of reliability.  And
complexity is the enemy of innovation, as all my time is eaten up
supporting obscure platforms and options such that I don't have time to
work on new features for a broad user base.

At some point you just have to draw and line and say "No!, We are not going
to support $obscure_platform_XYZ."  Windows 9x is across that line.

Yes, I could just blindly apply the supplied patch and be done with it.
But are you sure that won't break any legacy code?  You've done extensive
testing on WinXP, Vista, Win8, WinCE, and WinRT to make sure?  I'm guessing
you have not.  Which leaves it to me to do all that testing, and I don't
have the time right now.  Sorry.

Furthermore, those few extra lines of code added by this patch are lines of
code that we will need to support from now on.  Remember, initial code
development is only 10% of the effort - the other 90% is long term
support.  You can argue that a dozen extra lines out of 120,000 is not a
significant new support burden.  And you'd be right.  But a few dozen lines
here, and a few dozen lines there, and over the years this adds up.  Once
again, at some point you just have to draw and line and say "No!", the
requested feature is too obscure and has too small of a potential user base
to be worthwhile.

Note that the latest SQLite does still support win9x in this sense:  you
can plug in your own VFS module that supports win9x at runtime.  If you
want, you can copy the VFS code out of SQLite version 3.7.11 and add that
back into SQLite as a run-time VFS, if you like.  Your application can do
this.  So SQLite does still work on win9x - it is simply that the support
is no longer built-in.

The same thing happened for OS/2 a few releases back.  We removed the OS/2
VFS from the code so that OS/2 is no longer built in.  But any application
can still install their own OS/2 VFS at run-time, if they so desire.

So, to summarize, there will be no built-in win9x support added today.
Sorry to disappoint.

--
D. Richard Hipp
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Re: Running on windows 98

Jose F. Gimenez
Richard,

Ok, I fully understand your POV. I also write software for other
developers, and many times I have to deal with these kind of issues.

Thanks again.

Jose F. Gimenez
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Re: Running on windows 98

Gabor Grothendieck
In reply to this post by Richard Hipp-3
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Richard Hipp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Jose F. Gimenez <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Richard,
>>
>> thanks for replying.
>>
>>
>>  We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to
>>> support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to
>>> work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest
>>> you use those older versions of SQLite.
>>>

How about just supporting a compile time option to turn on or off that
optimization (on by default)?  Then those compiling for Win9x could
just turn it off yet it would not require explicit support and testing
of Win9x since its the option being supported rather than the platform
support.
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Re: Running on windows 98

Teg-3


I think you kick '98 to the curb and let the 5 people who use it
maintain their own support for it. Bit-rot is a real problem with any
code that goes mostly unexercised. I'm thinking maybe the '98 people
should simply fork their own version of Sqlite. Then find their own
'98 maintainer, instead of trying to force the job onto Dr Hipp.




Thursday, January 24, 2013, 3:18:15 PM, you wrote:

GG> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Richard Hipp <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Jose F. Gimenez <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> thanks for replying.
>>>
>>>
>>>  We have no way of testing SQLite on Win9x and so we do not intend to
>>>> support Win9x moving forward.  Some older versions of SQLite are known to
>>>> work on Win9x.  If you are still supporting Win9x applications, I suggest
>>>> you use those older versions of SQLite.
>>>>

GG> How about just supporting a compile time option to turn on or off that
GG> optimization (on by default)?  Then those compiling for Win9x could
GG> just turn it off yet it would not require explicit support and testing
GG> of Win9x since its the option being supported rather than the platform
GG> support.
GG> _______________________________________________
GG> sqlite-users mailing list
GG> [hidden email]
GG> http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users




--
Best regards,
 Teg                            mailto:[hidden email]

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