SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

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SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Winfried
Hello,

After reading this article…

"In the workplace, spreadsheet experts face a constant barrage of help
requests"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-first-rule-of-microsoft-exceldont-tell-anyone-youre-good-at-it-1538754380

… I'd like to check if there is a Windows GUI available as a valid
alternative to Excel, either free or commercial, that would let people
import XLS data and provide most of the Excel features.

Thank you.



--
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Luuk
On 6-10-2018 13:40, Winfried wrote:

> Hello,
>
> After reading this article…
>
> "In the workplace, spreadsheet experts face a constant barrage of help
> requests"
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-first-rule-of-microsoft-exceldont-tell-anyone-youre-good-at-it-1538754380
>
> … I'd like to check if there is a Windows GUI available as a valid
> alternative to Excel, either free or commercial, that would let people
> import XLS data and provide most of the Excel features.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>

LibreOffice (http://libreoffice.org/)
or
OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/)


LibreOffice provides all the functions of Excel, but the macro's is a
nightmare ;)
(or, in other words, writing a macro in Excel is easier than in LibreOffice)

i dont use OpenOffice, so i cannot give any info on it.

Finally, this question is prettu OFF-TOPIC for this list ?
maybe more suitable, pick a list from
https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/


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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Roger Schlueter
In reply to this post by Winfried
In addition to the freebies mentioned by Luuk, WordPerfect Office X9 is
a commercial product that includes all of Excel's features including
import/export of Excel data.

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/office-suite/?hptrack=mmap


On 10/6/2018 4:40, Winfried wrote:

> Hello,
>
> After reading this article…
>
> "In the workplace, spreadsheet experts face a constant barrage of help
> requests"
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-first-rule-of-microsoft-exceldont-tell-anyone-youre-good-at-it-1538754380
>
> … I'd like to check if there is a Windows GUI available as a valid
> alternative to Excel, either free or commercial, that would let people
> import XLS data and provide most of the Excel features.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> sqlite-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users

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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Warren Young
On Oct 6, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Roger Schlueter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In addition to the freebies mentioned by Luuk, WordPerfect Office X9 is a commercial product that includes all of Excel's features including import/export of Excel data.

I guess neither of you read the article, because the point of the original question isn’t to get recommendations for yet another spreadsheet program, it’s to get a program that lets us get away from spreadsheets-as-databases, because when such creations get complicated, they become very difficult to debug.  

(The article is about a guy who hates the fact that he allowed it to become known that he can debug these monstrosities, with the result that people keep bringing them to him.)

What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or FileMaker, preferably with some kind of cloud capability.

If that wish seems frivolous, realize that we’re not going to get rid of the spreadsheet-as-database as long as we have things like Office 365, Google Sheets, and iWork Numbers filling the desktop, mobile, *and* cloud niches.  This replacement must fill all of these same niches to begin pushing out these misuses of spreadsheets.  Otherwise, it will only help the minority of people who need a personal database on only one of these platforms.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Tim Streater-3
On 06 Oct 2018, at 17:23, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I guess neither of you read the article, because the point of the original
> question isn’t to get recommendations for yet another spreadsheet program,
> it’s to get a program that lets us get away from spreadsheets-as-databases,
> because when such creations get complicated, they become very difficult to
> debug.

[snip]

> What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or FileMaker,
> preferably with some kind of cloud capability.

If you toddle over to forum.xojo.com, there seems to be a thread ("Evaluating - how can there be no DataGrid") asking this question, with some possible answers.


--
Cheers  --  Tim
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Simon Slavin-3
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On 6 Oct 2018, at 5:23pm, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or FileMaker, preferably with some kind of cloud capability.
>
> If that wish seems frivolous, realize that we’re not going to get rid of the spreadsheet-as-database as long as we have things like Office 365, Google Sheets, and iWork Numbers filling the desktop, mobile, *and* cloud niches.  This replacement must fill all of these same niches to begin pushing out these misuses of spreadsheets.  Otherwise, it will only help the minority of people who need a personal database on only one of these platforms.

While all the above is true, I have written software like this.  A top-of-the head estimate for a single-user version would be

 5% OS interface, file handling, password protection
 5% database, mapping cells onto file/memory structure
 5% calculations and spreadsheet logic
85% GUI

In other words, the DBMS doesn't matter.  Most of your programming time is user interface and stopping the user from doing stuff they don't really want to do (e.g. circular references, implementing "Undo").

Much as I adore SQLite, it concerns just a tiny part of the problem.

Simon.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Luuk
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On 6-10-2018 18:23, Warren Young wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Roger Schlueter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In addition to the freebies mentioned by Luuk, WordPerfect Office X9 is a commercial product that includes all of Excel's features including import/export of Excel data.
> I guess neither of you read the article, because the point of the original question isn’t to get recommendations for yet another spreadsheet program, it’s to get a program that lets us get away from spreadsheets-as-databases, because when such creations get complicated, they become very difficult to debug.  
>
> (The article is about a guy who hates the fact that he allowed it to become known that he can debug these monstrosities, with the result that people keep bringing them to him.)
>
> What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or FileMaker, preferably with some kind of cloud capability.

i never did anything with FileMaker, but if Excel is a no-way-to-go,
than Access is most certainly too !

and, yes, i did not read the article... (sorry!)


Even a simple program (or (gui?)-interface on top of sqlite will not
stop those Excel-whizz-kids from crafting things in Excel.


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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Simon Slavin-3
On 6 Oct 2018, at 8:04pm, Luuk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Even a simple program (or (gui?)-interface on top of sqlite will not
> stop those Excel-whizz-kids from crafting things in Excel.

Excel ate the financial business world because companies use Excel to solve a simple problem, then add a feature, then add another feature, and keep going until they have some crawling creeping horror that needs to return to R'lyeh.  There is never any point in this process when a manager looks at what's being done with Excel and says "Okay we need to hire a programmer to turn this into a proper App.".

Reasons why this doesn't happen are the subject of today's coursework essay, 3500 to 4000 words, due in my pigeonhole by 5pm on the 14th.

Simon.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Warren Young
On Oct 6, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Excel ate the financial business world because companies use Excel to solve a simple problem, then add a feature, then add another feature, and keep going until they have some crawling creeping horror that needs to return to R'lyeh.  There is never any point in this process when a manager looks at what's being done with Excel and says "Okay we need to hire a programmer to turn this into a proper App.”.

Up to a certain point, there’s nothing wrong with that process.

One of the tasks smart management should be doing is keeping an eye on these guerrilla software development projects and step in when it becomes clear they’ve got a valuable business tool that needs to be rewritten on a stronger foundation to allow its continued growth and increasing value to the business.

If your business is big enough to have an IT staff with at least one professional programmer, turning Excel prototypes into professional business tools is mainly a matter of scheduling.  (Again, a function of management.)

The main need for a personal database is in organizations too small to have full-time programming staff.  (That includes most home use as well.)

Maybe that’s the biggest reason this sort of software is rare and expensive: big business doesn’t need it, so it only gets funded by small businesses and home users, who are notoriously tight when it comes to software licensing.

Contrast the elements of a traditional office software suite, which are needed clear through the Fortune uint8_t.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Tim Streater-3
On 07 Oct 2018, at 00:18, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Oct 6, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Excel ate the financial business world because companies use Excel to solve
>> a simple problem, then add a feature, then add another feature, and keep
>> going until they have some crawling creeping horror that needs to return to
>> R'lyeh.  There is never any point in this process when a manager looks at
>> what's being done with Excel and says "Okay we need to hire a programmer to
>> turn this into a proper App.”.
>
> Up to a certain point, there’s nothing wrong with that process.
>
> One of the tasks smart management should be doing is keeping an eye on these
> guerrilla software development projects and step in when it becomes clear
> they’ve got a valuable business tool that needs to be rewritten on a stronger
> foundation to allow its continued growth and increasing value to the business.

But they don't IME. Someone hacks something together as a proof of concept, and management thinks that it's job done. The hack, which requires some manpower to use, and which is not integrated with other systems, is then handed over to Operations.



--
Cheers  --  Tim
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Warren Young
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On Oct 6, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or FileMaker, preferably with some kind of cloud capability.

I’ve come up with a plan to do this within Fossil, or as a fork of it:

    https://fossil-scm.org/forum/forumpost/0f9f9f4733

Incidentally, those on this mailing list might want to visit that forum to preview what is likely to replace this mailing list at some point.  The formatting that was easily done for that post is just one of the many features we get from this new web forum feature in Fossil.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Luuk
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On 7-10-2018 01:18, Warren Young wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Excel ate the financial business world because companies use Excel to solve a simple problem, then add a feature, then add another feature, and keep going until they have some crawling creeping horror that needs to return to R'lyeh.  There is never any point in this process when a manager looks at what's being done with Excel and says "Okay we need to hire a programmer to turn this into a proper App.”.
> Up to a certain point, there’s nothing wrong with that process.

Yes, there is!
>
> One of the tasks smart management should be doing is keeping an eye on these guerrilla software development projects and step in when it becomes clear they’ve got a valuable business tool that needs to be rewritten on a stronger foundation to allow its continued growth and increasing value to the business.
The 'software development department' should forbid 'software
developmentprojects' which iare not done by them.
>
> If your business is big enough to have an IT staff with at least one professional programmer, turning Excel prototypes into professional business tools is mainly a matter of scheduling.  (Again, a function of management.)
"turning Excel prototypes into..." is a NO-GO.  It simply means that IT
staff did not do its own work 'the correct way'!.
>
> The main need for a personal database is in organizations too small to have full-time programming staff.  (That includes most home use as well.)
>
> Maybe that’s the biggest reason this sort of software is rare and expensive: big business doesn’t need it, so it only gets funded by small businesses and home users, who are notoriously tight when it comes to software licensing.
>
> Contrast the elements of a traditional office software suite, which are needed clear through the Fortune uint8_t.
> _______________________________________________
>

At the office where i work we have an Excel sheet which takes >10
minutes to load, and i do not beleive its because of the absolute size
of the excel sheet....
This Excel sheet contains (or tries to contain) )functionality which
should have been implemented a long time ago in our ERP-application.




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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Warren Young
On Oct 7, 2018, at 12:28 PM, Luuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The 'software development department' should forbid 'software
> developmentprojects' which iare not done by them.

Yes, and corporate laptops should be absolutely locked down, so that people can’t install software not approved by IT, which list will usually not include SQLite, there being no CIO lunches put on by SQLite, Inc.

Mainframe computers were replaced by weak little home computers, and those desktop computers were replaced by laptops, and those laptops are now being replaced by smartphones because end users want and deserve some control over their computing environment.  Central authorities that try to prevent this have always lost in the end, and they will continue to lose.

Any organization that demands complete centralized control over all things IT will fail to outcompete those that allow their users some freedom, as long as there are no competition breakdowns due to regulatory capture, monopolies, etc.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Peter da Silva-2
In reply to this post by Simon Slavin-3
There's a couple of Tcl/Tk SQLITE database managers that could be more easily turned into something like the Access GUI than starting from scratch. And they wouldn't be limited to Windows.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Keith Medcalf
In reply to this post by Warren Young

Many people do not "do" web forums.  I am one of them.  If there is not a mailing list then it does not exist.

---
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: sqlite-users [mailto:sqlite-users-
>[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Warren Young
>Sent: Sunday, 7 October, 2018 11:13
>To: SQLite mailing list
>Subject: Re: [sqlite] SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?
>
>On Oct 6, 2018, at 10:23 AM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> What we want is a SQLite-based program along the lines of Access or
>FileMaker, preferably with some kind of cloud capability.
>
>I’ve come up with a plan to do this within Fossil, or as a fork of
>it:
>
>    https://fossil-scm.org/forum/forumpost/0f9f9f4733
>
>Incidentally, those on this mailing list might want to visit that
>forum to preview what is likely to replace this mailing list at some
>point.  The formatting that was easily done for that post is just one
>of the many features we get from this new web forum feature in
>Fossil.
>_______________________________________________
>sqlite-users mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users



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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

Kees Nuyt
On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:25:26 -0600, "Keith Medcalf"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Many people do not "do" web forums.  I am one of them.

So am I. But:

> If there is not a mailing list then it does not exist.

The fossil forum sends notification mails, with the full text of
the forum posts, complete with references headers, so it threads
correctly, just like a mailing list.
For lurking mode, there is nothing else you have to do.

Once you decide you want to follow-up on a posting, the
procedure is simple: Each message contains a hyperlink to that
exact posting in the webforum. If you don't want to be
anonymous, you only have to login.
Click the reply button to reply. That's all.
No further navigation or browsing required.

For me, this is a very acceptable alternative for a mailing
list. YMMV, I know you post  more often than I do.

--
Regards,
Kees Nuyt

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SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Will Parsons
In reply to this post by Keith Medcalf
On Sunday,  7 Oct 2018  5:25 PM -0400, Keith Medcalf wrote:
>
> Many people do not "do" web forums.  I am one of them.  If there is not a mailing list then it does not exist.

I completely agree.  I read and post to the SQLite mailing via Gmane,
and I used to do the same for Fossil.  Now that the Fossil mailing
list has gone away, I can't use Gmane any more, so I no longer follow
Fossil.  Please, let's *not* have the same thing happen with SQLite3!

--
Will

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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Scott Robison-2
On Tue, Oct 9, 2018, 6:34 AM Will Parsons <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sunday,  7 Oct 2018  5:25 PM -0400, Keith Medcalf wrote:
> >
> > Many people do not "do" web forums.  I am one of them.  If there is not
> a mailing list then it does not exist.
>
> I completely agree.  I read and post to the SQLite mailing via Gmane,
> and I used to do the same for Fossil.  Now that the Fossil mailing
> list has gone away, I can't use Gmane any more, so I no longer follow
> Fossil.  Please, let's *not* have the same thing happen with SQLite3!


Isn't Gmane a web forum style interface to email lists? That doesn't seem
much different than what fossil is now doing, though maybe my lack of
experience using Gmane is preventing me from seeing a difference.

As described by at least one other, I use email to track the fossil forum
just as I always have, and can log in there to post when I want. I can
appreciate why people who refuse to use a web interface might object to it,
but not Gmane.

There are potential cons to the forum, but there are pros as well.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
On Oct 9, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Scott Robison <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Isn't Gmane a web forum style interface to email lists?

Gmane also provides NNTP access.  I suspect the anti-forum types are using Usenet news readers to follow such lists.

Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:

    http://gmane.org/about/

The arguments about mailing lists vs forums have all been had.  The software’s been written and is now successfully being used, tested, and enhanced, both within the Fossil project and in third-party repositories.  (Two of my own public repos are now using Fossil forums, for example.)

I believe the only uncertainties left are how many more features and how much more battle testing drh will want before cutting this mailing list over.

It is possible that Fossil will grow an email submission feature before that happens, so that this list *appears* to remain in place, even after it’s moved to a Fossil forum on the back end.  If that happens, I expect such email will be moderated by default.  I’m not sure whether it will ever be safe to mark email submissions as not needing moderation, due to the ease of email From address forgery.
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Re: SQLite mailing list

Ian Zimmerman-2
On 2018-10-09 11:19, Warren Young wrote:

> Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil
> forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:
>
>     http://gmane.org/about/
>

[...]

> It is possible that Fossil will grow an email submission feature
> before that happens, so that this list *appears* to remain in place,
> even after it's moved to a Fossil forum on the back end.  If that
> happens, I expect such email will be moderated by default.  I'm not
> sure whether it will ever be safe to mark email submissions as not
> needing moderation, due to the ease of email From address forgery.

There are many mailing lists which are not moderated by a human (to my
knowledge) and do not suffer from this problem.  Why?  Maybe because
someone took time to put a well tuned spam filter in place on the MTA
level?

--
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists
which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
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1234