SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Eric-2
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:19:13 -0600, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Scott Robison <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Isn't Gmane a web forum style interface to email lists?
>
> Gmane also provides NNTP access.  I suspect the anti-forum types are
> using Usenet news readers to follow such lists.

That's precisely what Gmane was always for.

I suppose I must be an "anti-forum type" even though I have never used
Gmane, but it does rather sound as though you are applying a somewhat
perjorative label here.
>
> Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil
> forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:
>
>     http://gmane.org/about/

I don't see that page saying what you claim it says.

> The arguments about mailing lists vs forums have all been had.

Not in my hearing :-)

> The software's been written ...

So I've joined the Fossil forum, and I get each post as an email and
they seem to thread properly, but of course I can't post by email, and
if I wanted to reply in context (like this very email) I would have to
construct it manually and paste it into the forum.

Even just reading, some of the forum emails are meaningless because
there is no context. I know, I could follow the link to the forum to see
the context - and then come back, and then go to the forum for a
different context ...

It's all too much trouble for someone with a lot of mailing list
subscriptions, there isn't enough time in the day, it's a lot easier to
keep a finger on the pulse without reading everything in mailing lists
than it is with forums.

I suppose all that amounts to a somewhat blurry feature request ;-)

Eric
--
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Re: SQLite mailing list

Warren Young
In reply to this post by Ian Zimmerman-2
On Oct 9, 2018, at 1:20 PM, Ian Zimmerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There are many mailing lists which are not moderated by a human (to my
> knowledge) and do not suffer from this problem.  Why?  Maybe because
> someone took time to put a well tuned spam filter in place on the MTA
> level?

Would you rather drh be writing SQLite and other software or managing MTAs and spam software?  At least if he spends time writing forum and SMTP features for Fossil, he’s adding value to the world, rather than simply fighting its decay.

If you say “hire it out,” where do those funds come from?

Moderation delegates the workload to people who volunteer to do it, which gives drh time to do the things he’d prefer to be doing, much of which overlaps with the things we’d rather he be doing, too.

Also: This list may be an unusually juicy target, given the number of places SQLite is deployed.  Are you comparing apples to apples?
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Darren Duncan
In reply to this post by Eric-2
On 2018-10-09 12:56 PM, Eric wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:19:13 -0600, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil
>> forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:
>>
>>      http://gmane.org/about/
>
> I don't see that page saying what you claim it says.

The only thing I saw along those lines was that gmane made it easy to harvest
the email addresses of all the forum posters, which could lead to external spam,
but I didn't see anything about it making things easier to send spam to the
lists themselves, unless that's implied by something else. -- Darren Duncan
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Re: SQLite mailing list

Simon Slavin-3
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On 9 Oct 2018, at 9:49pm, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Also: This list may be an unusually juicy target, given the number of places SQLite is deployed.

The minute SQLite gains any sort of internet connectivity, a hundred thousand man-hours of cracking attempts will be launched.  Which is why it's great the way it is.  Back door access to every mobile phone's contact list ?  That's monetised-hacker heaven.

As Fossil gains TCP, sockets, streams, or anything else, it becomes a more tempting target.  But the biggest dangers are more difficult, and take longer, to exploit.  And I'm not going to discuss them publicly.  Nevertheless, it's a less tempting target than SQLite.

The best protection is that all source code is public.  Anyone who thinks there's vuln can raise it, and ten people will evaluate it while the USA is still asleep.

Simon.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
In reply to this post by Eric-2
On Oct 9, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I suppose I must be an "anti-forum type" even though I have never used
> Gmane, but it does rather sound as though you are applying a somewhat
> perjorative label here.

I make no value judgement.  If you are against web forums, then you are anti-forum.  That’s just grammar.

>> Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil
>> forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:
>>
>>    http://gmane.org/about/
>
> I don't see that page saying what you claim it says.

“Gmane makes it much easier for spam harvesters to gather these real, authentic mail addresses. Even though the Gmane web interface to the news spool obfuscates all addresses, a spam harvesting bot just has to point itself to the news interface to slurp down the entire spool. And there's not much I can do to stop that from happening.”

>> The arguments about mailing lists vs forums have all been had.
>
> Not in my hearing :-)

How long have you been on this list?  The last such thread was about 4 months ago:

   http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Mailing-list-shutting-down-td102466.html

That event was the immediate spur to start this Fossil forum project, but if you search the archives, there are multiple threads.  Here’s one from about a year ago:

    http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Many-ML-emails-going-to-GMail-s-SPAM-td98685.html

If you think that thread is about a Gmail-specific problem, you’ve misunderstood it.  The problem is happening because spam gets reflected off this list, so people click “This is Spam” in Gmail, which causes Gmail’s spam filters to treat all messages on the list as more spammish.  The more that happens, the less likely a given SQLite ML message is to get to a Gmail user.

That problem will affect any mail system with centralized spam detection.  Gmail is just the biggest such provider, so it affects more people than any other.

Meanwhile, the Fossil forum has been up for 78 days now without even an *attempted* spam, as far as I’m aware, in part due to Fossil’s pre-existing anti-bot defenses:

    https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/antibot.wiki

If some spammer manages to get a posting past those defenses, it’ll be stopped by one of the moderators.

> if I wanted to reply in context (like this very email) I would have to
> construct it manually and paste it into the forum.

The need for message quoting is much reduced when you’ve got a properly-threaded web view.

As you can see from this message, I’m a big believer in brief, on-point quotes on mailing lists, but I only do it on the Fossil forum when there are multiple topics that need to be addressed separately, as in this message.  When my entire reply follows clearly from the prior post, I don’t bother quoting.

Keep in mind that Fossil forums default to Markdown formatting, so all it takes to quote something is to insert a right angle bracket and space at the start of a line, followed by a paste of the text you want to show as quoted in the reply.

…which is the standard for email, too, which means MUAs display it as expected as well.

> Even just reading, some of the forum emails are meaningless because
> there is no context. I know, I could follow the link to the forum to see
> the context - and then come back, and then go to the forum for a
> different context …

You say you’ve just joined, which means your mail reader doesn’t have any of the context locally, which is no different from a just-joined mailing list.

If, after several days you have the same problem with threads where the entire conversation has been sent to you, then the problem is in your mailer’s ability to reconstruct a thread.

I do believe Fossil’s email alerts system sends the proper headers to allow threaded viewing.  If you find it’s not working, let us know which mailer you’re using, and maybe we can add more headers to clue it into the proper threading.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
In reply to this post by Darren Duncan
On Oct 9, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Darren Duncan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 2018-10-09 12:56 PM, Eric wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:19:13 -0600, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Gmane is part of the problem that lead to the creation of the Fossil
>>> forum feature.  Viz., it enables spammers, by design:
>>>
>>>     http://gmane.org/about/
>> I don't see that page saying what you claim it says.
>
> The only thing I saw along those lines was that gmane made it easy to harvest the email addresses of all the forum posters, which could lead to external spam, but I didn't see anything about it making things easier to send spam to the lists themselves, unless that's implied by something else. -- Darren Duncan

One of the problems we’ve been having on these lists is that every time someone posts to it, they get NSFW spam, presumably because by posting, you’ve just proven that your email address is valid.  Everyone on the ML sees the poster’s email address.  My mailer included yours in the quoting structure above, and you quoted mine in the earlier quotes above.

(I’ve been on mailing lists where they yelled at you if you didn’t strip such things from the email, never mind not having any evidence that this helped.)

The only people who can see email addresses on a Fossil forum are the Admin and Setup users, which are typically the same person, and there’s usually only one.  They aren’t visible to subscribers, and they aren’t included in forum repository clones.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Keith Medcalf

>One of the problems we’ve been having on these lists is that every
>time someone posts to it, they get NSFW spam, presumably because by
>posting, you’ve just proven that your email address is valid.
>Everyone on the ML sees the poster’s email address.  My mailer
>included yours in the quoting structure above, and you quoted mine in
>the earlier quotes above.

And just what is NSFW spam?

Nazi Spam From Wankers?

Perhaps someone needs better spam filters or stop using freemail ...

---
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.




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Re: SQLite mailing list

Warren Young
In reply to this post by Simon Slavin-3
On Oct 9, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9 Oct 2018, at 9:49pm, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Also: This list may be an unusually juicy target, given the number of places SQLite is deployed.
>
> The minute SQLite gains any sort of internet connectivity, a hundred thousand man-hours of cracking attempts will be launched.  Which is why it's great the way it is.  Back door access to every mobile phone's contact list ?  That's monetised-hacker heaven.

Who said anything about putting a TCP listener into SQLite?

When — I see no reason to say “if” — this mailing list moves to Fossil forums, it will be as a *Fossil* forum, using the same code as currently powers https://fossil-scm.org/forum, not code that is part of SQLite.

> As Fossil gains TCP, sockets, streams, or anything else, it becomes a more tempting target.

Fossil v2.7 opens the same TCP listening sockets that v2.6 did, given equal conditions.

There’s a half-baked SMTP server feature in 2.7, but it’s not recommended for general use yet.  Presumably it will land in Fossil 2.8, but if you don’t enable the feature, it won’t listen.

I plan to continue delegating SMTP service to the battle-tested mainstream SMTP server that came with my Fossil server’s OS.

> The best protection is that all source code is public.  Anyone who thinks there's vuln can raise it, and ten people will evaluate it while the USA is still asleep.

A graph of Fossil forum traffic currently correlates pretty well with US daylight hours.  2 a.m. US time is a pretty lonely time on the forum.

So, we apparently need more European, African, Asian, and Oceanian Fossil users. :)
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Simon Slavin-3
In reply to this post by Keith Medcalf
On 9 Oct 2018, at 10:38pm, Keith Medcalf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And just what is NSFW spam?

Messages purporting to come from young women.  Some including images purporting to be them in various states of undress.

Simon.
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Re: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?

James K. Lowden
In reply to this post by Simon Slavin-3
On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 21:21:38 +0100
Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  There is never any point in this process when a manager looks at
> what's being done with Excel and says "Okay we need to hire a
> programmer to turn this into a proper App.".

Hmm, there is such a point.  I used to do work like that, and there
were others in the firm who did, too.  Still are. afaik.  

Modeling and prototyping get done by analysts with numerical and
statistical tools: Excel, sure, but also SAS, Matlab, R, etc.  Not
infrequently, some sinister stew cooked up with a database or two
added (or taken from).  If the model/prototype proves useful, it will
be reimplemented as a production application in a "real language"
to keep better control of the computational result.  The more users,
the more control is needed,  because fools^Wusers are so inventive.  

It's actually a gargantuan, industry-wide, systemic waste of time.  If
the core of the model could be be extracted from its GUI and inserted
as a module in a production program, millions of man-hours could be
saved every year.  

--jkl
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Petite Abeille-2
In reply to this post by Simon Slavin-3


> On Oct 9, 2018, at 11:42 PM, Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9 Oct 2018, at 10:38pm, Keith Medcalf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> And just what is NSFW spam?
>
> Messages purporting to come from young women.  Some including images purporting to be them in various states of undress.

( How does one subscribe? Asking for a friend… )

( Also, fwiw: please keep the mailing list, it's perfectly functional as is. )

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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Gary R. Schmidt
On 10/10/2018 22:20, Petite Abeille wrote:
>
[SNIP]
> ( Also, fwiw: please keep the mailing list, it's perfectly functional as is. )
>
Seconded.

It isn't broken, so please don't try and fix it.

        Cheers,
                Gary B-)
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cl
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

cl
Gary R. Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 10/10/2018 22:20, Petite Abeille wrote:
> >
> [SNIP]
> > ( Also, fwiw: please keep the mailing list, it's perfectly functional as is. )
> >
> Seconded.
>
> It isn't broken, so please don't try and fix it.
>
Exactly!  :-)

--
Chris Green
·

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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Eric-2
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:17:52 -0600, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I suppose I must be an "anti-forum type" even though I have never used
> > Gmane, but it does rather sound as though you are applying a somewhat
> > perjorative label here.
>
> I make no value judgement.  If you are against web forums, then you
> are anti-forum.  That's just grammar.

Well, OK, but "anything type" sounds to me like pigeon-holing people,
which is not good - it's the "type" that changes the meaning for me. I
guess we can put the difference in perception to differences in cultural
and personal background.

8>< --------

>>> The arguments about mailing lists vs forums have all been had.
>>
>> Not in my hearing :-)
>
> How long have you been on this list?  The last such thread was about 4
> months ago:
>
>    http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Mailing-list-shutting-down-td102466.html
>
> That event was the immediate spur to start this Fossil forum project,
> but if you search the archives, there are multiple threads.  Here's one
> from about a year ago:
>
>     http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Many-ML-emails-going-to-GMail-s-SPAM-td98685.html

Yes, I have those in my own archive (47 emails in two threads) but I
don't think that "all been had" applies.

> If you think that thread is about a Gmail-specific problem, ...

I don't, but I've never seen such spams, and I haven't had a false
positive for months.

8>< --------

> Meanwhile, the Fossil forum has been up for 78 days now without even
> an *attempted* spam, as far as I'm aware, in part due to Fossil's
> pre-existing anti-bot defenses:
>
>     https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/antibot.wiki

I believe it. I also think it is (from my point of view) beside the
point.

8>< --------
> The need for message quoting is much reduced when you've got a
> properly-threaded web view.

But only if you read the forum through the web view, not in the emails.

8>< --------

> > Even just reading, some of the forum emails are meaningless because
> > there is no context. I know, I could follow the link to the forum to see
> > the context - and then come back, and then go to the forum for a
> > different context '
>
> You say you've just joined, which means your mail reader doesn't
> have any of the context locally, which is no different from a just-joined
> mailing list.

I was allowing for that.

In a mailing list with mostly sensible contributors the context is right
there in the same page/screen/window, while with the mail reader's thread
list it's in a different place, and the forum is also in a different
place (and requiring different connectivity).

8>< --------
> I do believe Fossil's email alerts system sends the proper headers to
> allow threaded viewing.

So do I (In-Reply-To is enough?). If I think my mail reader is missing
something in threading, I can fall back to the best threader I have (the
surprisingly ancient mHonArc - Zawinski algorithm I think).

What the forum doesn't allow is a subthread with a "was" subject, like
this one.

Eric
--
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
On Oct 10, 2018, at 9:09 AM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't think that "all been had" applies.

Pedantically speaking, yes, you’re right, every possible argument has not been had on this mailing list yet.  

In order to avoid an “infinite monkeys” argument, let’s make it concrete: what substantial new take on this argument would you like to offer or see discussed?

Here’s some new data: the Fossil users’ and developers’ mailing lists are still online, yet traffic to both has fallen to near-zero.  There was some traffic on the user’s list for a while in previously-started threads, but other than that there were only two new threads started after the “This mailing list is now deprecated” thread:

   https://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@.../msg28049.html

One of those new threads had to be on the mailing list because it was testing an ML-specific feature.  The other new thread is now about 2 weeks old.  We used to get roughly 10 posts per day to the Fossil mailing lists, on average.  Meanwhile, the Fossil forums are quite busy, with roughly the same amount of traffic as was on the old mailing lists.

So, how about this: when the SQLite forum comes online, what if this list continues to exist, and we see if the same thing happens?

> What the forum doesn't allow is a subthread with a "was" subject, like
> this one.

Fossil forums offer something much better: internal hyperlinks.

Here’s an example:

    https://fossil-scm.org/forum/forumpost/195da45e5f

The code for that in the actual post is shorter:

    This thread picks up from [another](/forumpost/195da45e5f)...

In addition to being shorter, it’s immune from being broken just because some third-party mailing list archive service goes out of business or changes its URL scheme.

Newer technology affords better solutions.

Another problem we don’t have on the forum are tedious arguments over top-posting vs inline quoting.

I’ve written up a long list of advantages to the Fossil forum feature here:

    https://fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/forum.wiki
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Eric-2
In reply to this post by Gary R. Schmidt
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:48:37 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 10/10/2018 22:20, Petite Abeille wrote:
> >
> [SNIP]
> > ( Also, fwiw: please keep the mailing list, it's perfectly functional as is. )
> >
> Seconded.
>
> It isn't broken, so please don't try and fix it.

That, and

* mailing lists come to me, I don't have to go and get them

* mailing lists all work the same, no multiple forum URLs, passwords,
  user interfaces

* context usually exists within each email, no need to jump around the
  interface

* mailing lists are easy to read selectively and/or skim read

* I can keep my own (possibly selective) archive, searchable across
  all lists

I have (at the moment) 18 mailing lists and I don't know how many forum
memberships. I have a shortcut list which may or may not include all the
latter memberships, and a similarly incomplete list of passwords. With a
couple of exceptions I never get around to looking at most of the
forums, partly, of course, because there isn't time.

Spam is a problem, but I see almost none anywhere (swallowed by my email
provider, but I can and do check for false positives - almost none for
months now). I have a feeling (unprovable) that most people creating
spam "solutions" are solving the wrong problems, and I believe that the
solution of dropping the use of mailing lists or email generally is a
severe case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I've said most of this before in various places at various times, but
this seems like a good time to say it all at once.

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
On Oct 10, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> * mailing lists come to me, I don't have to go and get them

So do Fossil email alerts.

> * mailing lists all work the same

No, they don’t.

There are many different mailing list managers, each with different subscription methods, unsubscription methods, password requirements, commands, etc.

On top of that, the popular mailing list managers are highly configurable, so you can’t even say that all GNU Mailman mailing lists work the same.

> no multiple forum URLs

…but multiple mailing list manager URLs instead.

> passwords

Fossil forum subscribers don’t need a password.  Visit

   https://fossil-scm.org/forum/subscribe

to see this.  For the explanation of how you can be uniquely identified without requiring a password, see this section of the Fossil email alerts document:

   https://fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/alerts.md#password

> * context usually exists within each email, no need to jump around the
>  interface

When was the last time you used a mail client without threading?  Mail messages are *rarely* entirely self-contained.

And when they are, it’s usually because you’re looking at some monstrosity perpetrated by those who like untrimmed top-posting, so that every past message is listed below the new content, in reverse order.

> * mailing lists are easy to read selectively and/or skim read

Yes, just like Fossil email alerts.

> * I can keep my own (possibly selective) archive

You can clone a Fossil forum repository, if the forum’s administrator allows it.  The fossil-scm.org/forum allows it, so presumably the future sqlite.org/forum will as well.

As for selective archives, Fossil will let you delete content from a repository:

    https://fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/shunning.wiki

This includes forum posts.

What non-accidental differences do you have in your local SQLite mailing list archive as compared to those on the public mailing list archive services?

This line of argument also ignores the opposite virtue: with Fossil forums, it is easy to get a complete archive of past discussions without having been a subscriber since the beginning.  

Even if you do happen to be on mailing lists from the start, are your local mail backups complete?  I’m pretty sure I’ve lost old mailing list archives in moves from one client to another.  That can’t happen with Fossil, due to the durability of its block chain technology.

> searchable across all lists


Do you often find yourself unable to remember where you posted something, and thus wouldn’t know which forum to search for a given post, and thus must search all of them?

It’s happened to me, but only very rarely.  Usually I end up doing an Internet search for my own name and relevant keywords, which would also turn up Fossil forums content.

> I never get around to looking at most of the
> forums, partly, of course, because there isn't time.

It’s no faster to open a mail client than it is to open a folder full of forum bookmarks and scan their contents.

Fossil forums are especially nice in this regard, since there is currently no subforum feature, so you don’t have to go digging through them to find out what’s new.  The forum’s front page lists new posts in newest-first order, with the unread posts in a brighter hyperlink color.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Tim Streater-3
On 10 Oct 2018, at 18:10, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> * mailing lists come to me, I don't have to go and get them
>
> So do Fossil email alerts.

So there's an unecessary email I've just received telling me to go to the forum. I hate emails like that.

>> * mailing lists all work the same
>
> No, they don’t.
>
> There are many different mailing list managers, each with different
> subscription methods, unsubscription methods, password requirements, commands,
> etc.

They work well enough the same.

> On top of that, the popular mailing list managers are highly configurable, so
> you can’t even say that all GNU Mailman mailing lists work the same.
>
>> no multiple forum URLs
>
> …but multiple mailing list manager URLs instead.

But I hardly ever visit these, once I'm subscribed.

> When was the last time you used a mail client without threading?  Mail
> messages are *rarely* entirely self-contained.

All the time, actually, and I hate clients which thread for me. So I didn't implement that in my email client, (although I generate the headers so others can do it). If I want to see all sqlite emails together, I filter them into a mailbox. If for some reason I wanted the mails chunked together by thread, I can sort the mailbox by subject line.

> It’s no faster to open a mail client than it is to open a folder full of forum
> bookmarks and scan their contents.
>
> Fossil forums are especially nice in this regard, since there is currently no
> subforum feature, so you don’t have to go digging through them to find out
> what’s new.  The forum’s front page lists new posts in newest-first order,

Ah, top-posted, eh?

Bottom line: leave this list as it is.



--
Cheers  --  Tim
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Warren Young
On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Tim Streater <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10 Oct 2018, at 18:10, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> * mailing lists come to me, I don't have to go and get them
>>
>> So do Fossil email alerts.
>
> So there's an unecessary email I've just received telling me to go to the forum.

Fossil forum email alerts include the full content of the message.
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Re: SQLite mailing list [was: SQLite Windows GUI alternative to Excel?]

Petite Abeille-2
In reply to this post by Warren Young


> On Oct 10, 2018, at 6:02 PM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’ve written up a long list of advantages to the Fossil forum feature here:

Quixotic, but your dedication has to be applauded.

Could we agree to disagree though?

Or is it a case of "somebody is wrong on the internet”? https://xkcd.com/386/

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