Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

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Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Charles Hudson
I come from an ANSI SQL client / server background (Oracle, MS SQL) but am
interested in finding a SQL database to install on an old Macintosh G3 Power
PC that is running OS 9.2.  I don't need network connectivity as this would
be limited to a single machine.

 

I am pursuing this mostly out of curiosity; a learning experience for
investigating the capabilities of the Mac.

 

Rather than sign up for your mailing list I thought I might ask this one
question:  Which, if any, versions of SQLite might be suitable for this
task?

 

Thank you for your replies.

 

-CH-



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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Simon Slavin-3
On 19 Nov 2018, at 1:58pm, Charles Hudson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I come from an ANSI SQL client / server background (Oracle, MS SQL) but am interested in finding a SQL database to install on an old Macintosh G3 Power PC that is running OS 9.2.

OS 9 is dead dead dead.  The last release was in 1999 and support for it ended in February 2002.  What you are doing is not programming, it's experimental archeology.

In 1999, SQlite was not released yet.  Version 1.0 of SQLite was released August 2000.  By February 2003, SQlite had reached version 2.3.0.

Version 2.x of SQLite uses a different file format to version 3.x of SQLite.  So you're going to have to decide whether you want to use a version of SQLite that might have been in use at the time of that OS or a modern version never intended to run on it.

>  Which, if any, versions of SQLite might be suitable for this
> task?

SQLite is not a program, it's a programmer's library.  The version you should use is the latest version that your development environment supports.  So the answer depends on which programming language, compiler, and other libraries you're using, and whether you can call C functions from your programming language.  And on how good you are at working around compiler warnings and errors.

It's possible that even the current version of SQLite is compatible with whatever you're using.  But probably not.  You might like to try it with your development environment, and tell us what error message gets generated.  Or you might like to ask on a forum which discusses whatever compiler you use for your target platform.

Simon.
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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Dominique Devienne
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Simon Slavin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 19 Nov 2018, at 1:58pm, Charles Hudson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I come from an ANSI SQL client / server background (Oracle, MS SQL) but
> am interested in finding a SQL database to install on an old Macintosh G3
> Power PC that is running OS 9.2.
> OS 9 is dead dead dead.  The last release was in 1999 and support for it
> ended in February 2002.  What you are doing is not programming, it's
> experimental archeology.
>

All true.


> It's possible that even the current version of SQLite is compatible with
> whatever you're using.  But probably not.  [...]
>

Meh think  "probably yes". C, as used by SQLite, dates back to 1989, so
predates MacOS 9 :).

The problem you are likely to run into though, with the modern SQLite
source code, is that there's probably no VFS [1] for Mac OS.
So you might be able to build SQLite fine, but w/o a VFS, you cannot do
much with it. Most of the SQLite code is platform agnostic,
but at some point, it must interface with the local filesystem on the local
platform.

But Simon is also right that you'll need to be able to access a C compiler,
and be able to run and diagnose any errors from it,
before you can play with SQL (assuming you resolve the VFS issue too of
course).

In any case, please do share your experiences here, if you continue in your
archaeological dig :). --DD

[1] https://www.sqlite.org/vfs.html
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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Christian Schmitz

>
> The problem you are likely to run into though, with the modern SQLite
> source code, is that there's probably no VFS [1] for Mac OS.

If you use some old compiler like Metroworks C compiler, you would get the C runtime coming with it.

And I would expect that unix-dotfile should work for most stuff.
File path text encoding may be tricky, but for just English letters, it may be fine.

Sincerely
Christian

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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

James K. Lowden
In reply to this post by Dominique Devienne
On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:16:37 +0100
Dominique Devienne <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Most of the SQLite code is platform agnostic, but at some point, it
> must interface with the local filesystem on the local platform.

While your first challenge will probably be to get a sufficiently
modern C compiler for OS 9, Dominique's point will probably turn out to
matter more.  SQLite is very adaptable; it makes almost no assumptions
about OS services.  But on a non-Posix, non-Windows OS like yours,
you'll have the work of supplying the missing pieces to allow SQLite to
open a file, flush writes to disk, and so on.  

As they say, just a small matter of programming.  

--jkl
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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Ryan Schmidt
In reply to this post by Charles Hudson
On Nov 19, 2018, at 07:58, Charles Hudson wrote:

> I come from an ANSI SQL client / server background (Oracle, MS SQL) but am
> interested in finding a SQL database to install on an old Macintosh G3 Power
> PC that is running OS 9.2.  I don't need network connectivity as this would
> be limited to a single machine.
>
> I am pursuing this mostly out of curiosity; a learning experience for
> investigating the capabilities of the Mac.
>
> Rather than sign up for your mailing list I thought I might ask this one
> question:  Which, if any, versions of SQLite might be suitable for this
> task?

You would probably have an easier time getting SQLite working on that hardware by installing a UNIX-like operating system. Classic Mac OS (Mac OS 9 and earlier) are not related to UNIX at all and SQLite is not designed for it, but Mac OS X (which was subsequently renamed to OS X and now macOS) is a BSD-derived UNIX operating system, and an old version of Mac OS X could be installed on your G3. Which version depends on which model of G3 you have.

Blue & white Power Macintosh G3s can run up to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. Beige Power Macintosh G3s may need a RAM upgrade but can run up to Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar officially, and 10.4 can be installed with XPostFacto. Those versions of Mac OS X already come with an old version of SQLite; you may be able to compile a newer version if needed. If you're running at least Mac OS X 10.4, you can use MacPorts to install a newer SQLite for you. (Mac OS X 10.5 and later do not run on PowerPC G3 processors.)

You can keep your Mac OS 9 installation if you want, either on the same partition or on a separate partition or separate disk. You can run your Mac OS 9 programs within Mac OS X by using the "Classic" application, or you can reboot into Mac OS 9.

Alternately, you might be able to install another UNIX-like operating system, such as a Linux distribution or one of the other BSD variants.

Installing Mac OS X or any other UNIX-like system would also make it more likely that you could install other common SQL databases like MySQL/MariaDB and PostgreSQL.

Or if you just need a database and don't need it to be SQL, FileMaker Pro is a database system that was available for Mac OS 9 and is still available for Mac OS X. Even HyperCard for Mac OS 9 and earlier can be used as a simple database and was pretty fun.

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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

Charles Hudson
Thank you for your reply.  I have SQLite running on a dual-boot
Win7/Fedora28 machine, and I have already investigated FMPro v.2,3 and
5.  I have not tried installing any version of OS X, however; that will
be my next avenue of exploration.

Thanks once again for your assistance.

-CH-

On Tue, 2018-12-04 at 17:40 -0600, Ryan Schmidt wrote:

> On Nov 19, 2018, at 07:58, Charles Hudson wrote:
>
> > I come from an ANSI SQL client / server background (Oracle, MS SQL)
> > but am
> > interested in finding a SQL database to install on an old Macintosh
> > G3 Power
> > PC that is running OS 9.2.  I don't need network connectivity as
> > this would
> > be limited to a single machine.
> >
> > I am pursuing this mostly out of curiosity; a learning experience
> > for
> > investigating the capabilities of the Mac.
> >
> > Rather than sign up for your mailing list I thought I might ask
> > this one
> > question:  Which, if any, versions of SQLite might be suitable for
> > this
> > task?
>
> You would probably have an easier time getting SQLite working on that
> hardware by installing a UNIX-like operating system. Classic Mac OS
> (Mac OS 9 and earlier) are not related to UNIX at all and SQLite is
> not designed for it, but Mac OS X (which was subsequently renamed to
> OS X and now macOS) is a BSD-derived UNIX operating system, and an
> old version of Mac OS X could be installed on your G3. Which version
> depends on which model of G3 you have.
>
> Blue & white Power Macintosh G3s can run up to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.
> Beige Power Macintosh G3s may need a RAM upgrade but can run up to
> Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar officially, and 10.4 can be installed with
> XPostFacto. Those versions of Mac OS X already come with an old
> version of SQLite; you may be able to compile a newer version if
> needed. If you're running at least Mac OS X 10.4, you can use
> MacPorts to install a newer SQLite for you. (Mac OS X 10.5 and later
> do not run on PowerPC G3 processors.)
>
> You can keep your Mac OS 9 installation if you want, either on the
> same partition or on a separate partition or separate disk. You can
> run your Mac OS 9 programs within Mac OS X by using the "Classic"
> application, or you can reboot into Mac OS 9.
>
> Alternately, you might be able to install another UNIX-like operating
> system, such as a Linux distribution or one of the other BSD
> variants.
>
> Installing Mac OS X or any other UNIX-like system would also make it
> more likely that you could install other common SQL databases like
> MySQL/MariaDB and PostgreSQL.
>
> Or if you just need a database and don't need it to be SQL, FileMaker
> Pro is a database system that was available for Mac OS 9 and is still
> available for Mac OS X. Even HyperCard for Mac OS 9 and earlier can
> be used as a simple database and was pretty fun.
>
--
-CH-

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Re: Suitability for Macintosh OS 9.2?

E.Pasma
Hello,

I use SQLite on a Macintosh (snow white) with OS 9.2. However SQLite actually runs on a new mac mini and is accessed via virtual network computing, using VNCthing 2.2. On the MacOS side, only desktop sharing must be switched on.  

I thought I should mention it here as it is exclusively to run SQLite, in a terminal window.

I had to overcome two issues: vi does not behave properly. When typing a '+' it opens a new line. This is overcome by using MacVIM.

Since upgrading the Mac mini to OS X Mojave (10.14.2), VNC hangs when logging in for the second time, after disconnecting. This is overcome by logging out before disconnecting.

Thanks, E. Pasma


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